Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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viriya424
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by viriya424 »

binocular wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:39 pm
Antaradhana wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:59 pmIf you have a lot of doubts, it is better to postpone the ordination.
A man who is fit and ready to ordain wouldn't be asking in an online forum whether he should ordain or not.
True, but to be fair, I'm not really asking whether I should ordain or not. That's not up for debate for me. I only wanted others' perspectives on whether there is any value in risking my opportunity to ordain right now and waiting a bit longer instead, just for the sake of pleasing the worldly desires of my family, since that's not something where I would immediately trust my initial feelings/inclinations. Upon reflecting on the replies I've received, I am slowly becoming more convinced that there is not.
eto
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by eto »

"I only wanted others' perspectives on whether there is any value in risking my opportunity to ordain right now and waiting a bit longer instead, just for the sake of pleasing the worldly desires of my family."

The worldly desires for you of your family will continue after your degree. It will be a masters, then a PhD then this then that, then a good job, house, wife etc etc etc ad infinitum. Moreover, once you have a degree, for example, and you mention Monklife, then your family will be all "Why did you get a degree if you're only going to be a Monk!? You should have just ordained years ago if that's what you wanted" (same thing happened to me)..

That's samsara. It's designed to keep you flowing blindly in its torrent. Your family, being swept up in it, naturally want to keep you moving along as swiftly n smoothly as possible.

If you have the opportunity to get out now, seize it. The world certainly won't be going anywhere. To learn the Dhamma, however, well that is on a finite timeline.
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Alīno
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by Alīno »

How do people who ordain deal with issues like this?
Hello :anjali:

First i asked for permission when i was 23, my mom said that i'am to young and i have to try a lay life, find good girls friend, friends hobby and so on, i said ok i will try, so up to my 27 i lived like that, but this life was full of unsatisfactions full of many kind of burdens, problems, sufferings, duties, conflicts, etc... So i said to my friends and my girl friend that i will deepen my practice so i have to leave them. I came to my mom and said that i tried to live a lay life, and its not for me, i asked a second time, second time she said no because she loves me. So i practiced for some times and asked her for the third time, she said no, but after some discussion she said that i have to try a hermit-style life, she said that i can buy some small house in the forest, keep all precepts i want and practice what i want, and when this house will be mine, i will be free. So now i'am 29, and i will be free when i will be 32-33... So I loosed 10 years of my life because my mother wants her to be happy, and dont wants me to be happy. I love her, but i will not suffer because of her ignorance and greed. It's all Mara's actions.

Fortunatly i had enought wisdom to see unsatisfaction and burden of lay life, so now, after trying ALL pleasures that lay life can offer to my senses, i know that there is nothing that can equal the holy life, so now there will be much less temptation to disrobe if i was ordained when i was 23.

So there is both good and bad sides:
- Good is that you know all about sufferings of lay life
- Bad you can loose 10 years or even your whole life...

Ask your self these some questions :
- When you will be reborn as a humain next time?
- Are you sure that at this time there will be Lord Buddah Teaching?
- Are you sure that you will met this teaching?
- Are you sure that you will understand and gent faith in this Teaching?
- Are you sure that you will be able to practice it?
- Are you sure that there will be conditions to ordain as a monk?

This life is to precious to spend it on wordly metters, to spend it because of some else selfishness, your mother in this life will not be your mother in the next life... Dont loose your time, and follow your heart... And if one day you will disrobe, dont worry, in this world, not a lot of peaoples die from striving, so you will not die even if you will live without job on the street or other, there will be less comfort, but comfort for an ex-bikkhu is something with not lot importance.

Dont die with regret.

This world is diying now, ecological, political, social, economical fields of humain life, goes to an end, perhaps during next 10 or 20 years all good conditions to practice as a monk will disapear because of lack of resources, because of wars etc... Dot loose this live's opportunity, we hve no a lot of time now.

Listen to your intuition, dont listen to others, dont loose this presious life, dont loose this ocasion to practice Buddha's Path of freedom from suffering. Do you realy want to be born, then die, be reborn , then die, be reborn, then die, be reborn, then die, be reborn ,then die...

With metta. Be strong.
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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viriya424
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by viriya424 »

eto wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:21 am "I only wanted others' perspectives on whether there is any value in risking my opportunity to ordain right now and waiting a bit longer instead, just for the sake of pleasing the worldly desires of my family."

The worldly desires for you of your family will continue after your degree. It will be a masters, then a PhD then this then that, then a good job, house, wife etc etc etc ad infinitum. Moreover, once you have a degree, for example, and you mention Monklife, then your family will be all "Why did you get a degree if you're only going to be a Monk!? You should have just ordained years ago if that's what you wanted" (same thing happened to me)..

That's samsara. It's designed to keep you flowing blindly in its torrent. Your family, being swept up in it, naturally want to keep you moving along as swiftly n smoothly as possible.

If you have the opportunity to get out now, seize it. The world certainly won't be going anywhere. To learn the Dhamma, however, well that is on a finite timeline.
Those were exactly my initial thoughts, and I have managed to bring myself back to that conviction. I guess that, for a moment, I expected there to be no resistance against my going forth, forgetting that, as you say, the stream never goes in that direction. There will always be some obstacles standing before renunciation, and in my case, they seem to be relatively few right now. I cannot afford to let that change. Thanks for the encouragement eto.
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viriya424
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by viriya424 »

Nwad wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:46 pm
How do people who ordain deal with issues like this?
Hello :anjali:

First i asked for permission when i was 23, my mom said that i'am to young and i have to try a lay life, find good girls friend, friends hobby and so on, i said ok i will try, so up to my 27 i lived like that, but this life was full of unsatisfactions full of many kind of burdens, problems, sufferings, duties, conflicts, etc... So i said to my friends and my girl friend that i will deepen my practice so i have to leave them. I came to my mom and said that i tried to live a lay life, and its not for me, i asked a second time, second time she said no because she loves me. So i practiced for some times and asked her for the third time, she said no, but after some discussion she said that i have to try a hermit-style life, she said that i can buy some small house in the forest, keep all precepts i want and practice what i want, and when this house will be mine, i will be free. So now i'am 29, and i will be free when i will be 32-33... So I loosed 10 years of my life because my mother wants her to be happy, and dont wants me to be happy. I love her, but i will not suffer because of her ignorance and greed. It's all Mara's actions.
It's sad to hear your mother is like that. It's ironic how some parents tell their children becoming a monk is selfish, yet don't realize they are the selfish ones, being more interested in their own satisfaction of having their children by their side rather than the latter's happiness.
Fortunatly i had enought wisdom to see unsatisfaction and burden of lay life, so now, after trying ALL pleasures that lay life can offer to my senses, i know that there is nothing that can equal the holy life, so now there will be much less temptation to disrobe if i was ordained when i was 23.
Yeah, I guess that can give you an additional sense of certainty. But if you think about it, we've all been geared toward sensuality from the instant we're born, so trying more things out in order to "see dukkha in them" shouldn't be necessary. Every indulgence in sense pleasures is just a proliferation of that same underlying attitude of craving that's been causing us to suffer since time immemorial. Whether you're craving to suck on your mother's nipple as a baby or to have sex as an adult, it's the same thing.
This world is diying now, ecological, political, social, economical fields of humain life, goes to an end, perhaps during next 10 or 20 years all good conditions to practice as a monk will disapear because of lack of resources, because of wars etc... Dot loose this live's opportunity, we hve no a lot of time now.
True. Yet another reason not to waste time on trivial matters.
Listen to your intuition, dont listen to others, dont loose this presious life, dont loose this ocasion to practice Buddha's Path of freedom from suffering. Do you realy want to be born, then die, be reborn , then die, be reborn, then die, be reborn, then die, be reborn ,then die...

With metta. Be strong.
Thank you, likewise Nwad. May we all be able to practice it and realize its fruits before it's too late.
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Alīno
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by Alīno »

Thank you, likewise Nwad. May we all be able to practice it and realize its fruits before it's too late.
Thank you my friend, i would like to share with you my favorite paritta of "Sharing Blessings and Aspiration"

Throught the goodness that arises from my practice
May my spiritual teachers and gides of great vertue
My mother my father and my relatives
The sun and the moon, all vitrues liders of the world
May the highest gods and evil forces
Celestial beings, guardian spirits of the Earth, and the Lord of Death
May those who are friendly, indiferent or hostile
May all beings recive the blessings of my live
May they soon attain the threefold bliss and realise the Deathless
Throught the goodness that arises from my practice
And throught this act of sharing
May all desires and attachments quickly ceasse
And all harmfull states of mind until i realise Nibbana
In every kind of birth may i have un upright mind
With mindfullness ad wisdom
Austerity and vigour
May the forces of delusion not take hold, nor weaken my resolve
The Buddha is my exelent refuge
Unsurpassed is the protection of the Dhamma
The solitary Buddha is my Noble Lord
The Sangha is my supreme support
Throught the supreme power of all this
May darkness and delusion be dispelled

Metta _/\_
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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viriya424
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by viriya424 »

Nwad wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:10 pm
Thank you, likewise Nwad. May we all be able to practice it and realize its fruits before it's too late.
Thank you my friend, i would like to share with you my favorite paritta of "Sharing Blessings and Aspiration"

Throught the goodness that arises from my practice
May my spiritual teachers and gides of great vertue
My mother my father and my relatives
The sun and the moon, all vitrues liders of the world
May the highest gods and evil forces
Celestial beings, guardian spirits of the Earth, and the Lord of Death
May those who are friendly, indiferent or hostile
May all beings recive the blessings of my live
May they soon attain the threefold bliss and realise the Deathless
Throught the goodness that arises from my practice
And throught this act of sharing
May all desires and attachments quickly ceasse
And all harmfull states of mind until i realise Nibbana
In every kind of birth may i have un upright mind
With mindfullness ad wisdom
Austerity and vigour
May the forces of delusion not take hold, nor weaken my resolve
The Buddha is my exelent refuge
Unsurpassed is the protection of the Dhamma
The solitary Buddha is my Noble Lord
The Sangha is my supreme support
Throught the supreme power of all this
May darkness and delusion be dispelled

Metta _/\_
Beautiful indeed. :anjali:
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Alīno
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by Alīno »

PS:
I would like to clerify a point about my mother, to be understood rightly by peoples who will read my reply here.
My mother is a very good person, it's a best mother that i could have. It's because of my respect and love that i followed and listened to her suggestions and asked her for permission out of compassion to her. All of my friends say that my mother is the exemple of good mother and that they would like have mother like that. It's exactly because of she's great heart and great love for me that she was agains my going forth, not because of bad intentions, but because of good ones, but based upon wordly metters. I think she was a great lay supporter in some previous life. :bow:
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
santa100
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by santa100 »

unseeingdog wrote:I find myself becoming more and more dispassionate towards those things. Even now I feel like I would be content with an unskilled job, let alone if I had the chance to practice more intensely as a monk for a couple years.
As probably mentioned in the previous thread, you might want to thoroughly investigate how easy it is to transition yourself into the life of an ascetic AND vice versa before making any decision. Monkhood is no easy free ride, it's most definitely not for the faint of heart. You'll find yourself going against all the worldly streams of the mundane life (ex: maintain absolute celibacy for the rest of your life (zero sex act in whatever way, shape, or form, except the case of wet dreams), 1 meal a day before noon (in most cases), constantly watching/monitoring one's state of mind to eliminate defilements, etc...). The easier/more comfortable the transition, the better the odds you'll be able to stay as a monk for the rest of your life. Also make sure to investigate the other way around though. You said you're pretty smart, at the top of your class and stuff, but do check to see how easy it is to transition back to lay life in case plan A does not work out. If you major in STEM fields (science/tech/engineering/math), it won't matter whether you get your degree before or after ordination due to the constantly evolving nature of these fields. They're at the bleeding edge of technological frontiers and constantly updating/evolving, so even if you have one of these degrees and but out of work for 6 months or so, your degree would turn into just another piece of paper because your skillset would already became outdated. You might have better luck with other academic disciplines. Bottomeline is have all the infos ready and thoroughly investigated before making the decision. Regarding your mom, if you go ahead with plan A, do try to keep in touch frequently. She might miss you a lot the first couple months, and then life goes on, she'll adapt, adjust, and move on, just like anything else in life. So don't worry too much about that. Good luck.
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viriya424
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

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santa100 wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:02 pm
unseeingdog wrote:I find myself becoming more and more dispassionate towards those things. Even now I feel like I would be content with an unskilled job, let alone if I had the chance to practice more intensely as a monk for a couple years.
As probably mentioned in the previous thread, you might want to thoroughly investigate how easy it is to transition yourself into the life of an ascetic AND vice versa before making any decision. Monkhood is no easy free ride, it's most definitely not for the faint of heart. You'll find yourself going against all the worldly streams of the mundane life (ex: maintain absolute celibacy for the rest of your life (zero sex act in whatever way, shape, or form, except the case of wet dreams), 1 meal a day before noon (in most cases), constantly watching/monitoring one's state of mind to eliminate defilements, etc...). The easier/more comfortable the transition, the better the odds you'll be able to stay as a monk for the rest of your life. Also make sure to investigate the other way around though. You said you're pretty smart, at the top of your class and stuff, but do check to see how easy it is to transition back to lay life in case plan A does not work out. If you major in STEM fields (science/tech/engineering/math), it won't matter whether you get your degree before or after ordination due to the constantly evolving nature of these fields. They're at the bleeding edge of technological frontiers and constantly updating/evolving, so even if you have one of these degrees and but out of work for 6 months or so, your degree would turn into just another piece of paper because your skillset would already became outdated. You might have better luck with other academic disciplines. Bottomeline is have all the infos ready and thoroughly investigated before making the decision. Regarding your mom, if you go ahead with plan A, do try to keep in touch frequently. She might miss you a lot the first couple months, and then life goes on, she'll adapt, adjust, and move on, just like anything else in life. So don't worry too much about that. Good luck.
Very good point about the degree which I hadn't thought about. STEM is what I am currently studying, Being the only thing I can imagine myself doing, that's what I would end up majoring in. Also, as I believe I mentioned, I'm only 19, so it's not like I would be that old by the time I've tried monasticism out long enough.

I have already decided that I will leave soon. I realized that what I could lose if I risk this chance and wait is far greater than the drawback of postponing my studies for a few years if I were to disrobe. Then again, I'm quite certain that I wouldn't willingly return to worldly life, but I suppose almost everyone who's ever done it said the same. Either way, I don't have too much to lose.
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

Post by Antaradhana »

unseeingdog wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:39 pmI have already decided that I will ordain soon.
Sādhu! Sādhu! Sādhu!
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

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Anumdana!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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viriya424
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Re: Mom dejected about my decision to ordain

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Also, just to add, my mom is beginning to digest it better now. I'm fortunate she has a lot of mental strength, and though she usually raises objections against my decisions initially, she eventually comes to understand them and ends up supporting me. She told me she realized that although going off to become a monk sounds like an easy escape from problems, it certainly won't be that for me, given I will have to let go so of many things I've always been attached to and get into situations I used to (and some still) despise. So in a sense, it's almost like seeking more problems. That's why she must have seen I must really want this to even dare trying it out.
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