You should not brandish sticks if you cannot grasp even the theoretical foundations of anatta.cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:21 pm(smacks you with a stick)Antaradhana wrote:There is no self that would be eternal or annihilated.
Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
- Antaradhana
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:56 pm
- Location: Saratov, Russia
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
you should recognize your own existenceAntaradhana wrote:You should not brandish sticks if you cannot grasp even the theoretical foundations of anatta.cappuccino wrote:(smacks you with a stick)Antaradhana wrote:There is no self that would be eternal or annihilated.
& deal in reality
- Antaradhana
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:56 pm
- Location: Saratov, Russia
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
Puggala is a convention of communication in the world. Even Buddha used the pronoun "I", for the convenience of communication in the world. But this does not mean that the self exists in reality. In reality, there are only currents of impersonal and conditioned phenomena.cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:23 pmyou should recognize your own existenceAntaradhana wrote:You should not brandish sticks if you cannot grasp even the theoretical foundations of anatta.cappuccino wrote:
(smacks you with a stick)
& deal in reality
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
Annihilation is extreme
The middle position is advisable
But eternity isn't the other extreme
Eternal identity is the other extreme
The middle position is advisable
But eternity isn't the other extreme
Eternal identity is the other extreme
- Antaradhana
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:56 pm
- Location: Saratov, Russia
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
The destruction and eternal existence - implies the presence of self. Whereas the self does not exist and never existed, only suffering exists. Since there is no self, there is nothing that could abide forever or be destroyed.cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:32 pm annihilation is extreme
the middle position is advisable
but eternity isn't the other extreme
eternal identity is the other extreme
“Only suffering exists, but there is none who is suffering;
Actions are committed, but there is no one who commits them;
There is a nibbana, but there is no one who enters into it;
The path exists, but you cannot find the one who follows it”.
Visuddhimagga
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
you already eternally exist / existed
nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate
that's the right way to think of it
nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate
that's the right way to think of it
- Antaradhana
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:56 pm
- Location: Saratov, Russia
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
There are volatile, suffering, and impersonal dhammas that exist due to conditioning by past dhammas.cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:44 pm you already eternally exist / existed
nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate
that's the right way to think of it
The existence, eternity, or annihilation of personality is a fallacy.
That's the right way to think of it.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
you already exist
nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate
nothing will change that since there isn't a self to annihilate
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
Antaradhana wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pmThe destruction and eternal existence - implies the presence of self. Whereas the self does not exist and never existed, only suffering exists. Since there is no self, there is nothing that could abide forever or be destroyed.cappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:32 pm annihilation is extreme
the middle position is advisable
but eternity isn't the other extreme
eternal identity is the other extreme
“Only suffering exists, but there is none who is suffering;
Actions are committed, but there is no one who commits them;
There is a nibbana, but there is no one who enters into it;
The path exists, but you cannot find the one who follows it”.
Visuddhimagga
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
The question is you do not know what is nibbana unless already attained to it assuming there is something called nibbana .
Speculating is all one can do .
Speculating is all one can do .
You always gain by giving
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
Nirvana is "the cool"
one can feel cool, by air conditioning
one can feel cool, by air conditioning
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6231
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
Pure awareness/bare awareness looks permanent when u detach yourself from all ever changing impermanent cognizable stuffs. but that awareness itself is impermanent and non self or temporary. awareness is supported by blood flow to brain and there are regions of mind that is responsible for awareness. if u use anestisia, you will lose that awareness itself but you won't die. which means non-awareness can happen even when u are alive. if u can't maintain awareness in this life then how its possible to exist when u die. unconciousness state like experience is what happens as final goal if I am not wrong. unconciousness state means no consciousness so no concept of world. when there is no consciousness, there is no experience itself. it is uncreated state, unbecoming, non changing, permanent, not dependent of anything. it is peaceful because it is like still lake. there is no consciousness activity so no stress.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:47 am Greetings
Do you suggest then that arahants are unconscious, unaware?
or are they fully consciouss and fully aware?
What is the true refuge? Its complete awareness, the unconditioned
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... tml#island" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"And how, Ananda, is a bhikkhu an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge?
34. "When he dwells contemplating the body in the body, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world; when he dwells contemplating feelings in feelings, the mind in the mind, and mental objects in mental objects, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world, then, truly, he is an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; having the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge.
35. "Those bhikkhus of mine, Ananda, who now or after I am gone, abide as an island unto themselves, as a refuge unto themselves, seeking no other refuge; having the Dhamma as their island and refuge, seeking no other refuge: it is they who will become the highest, 20 if they have the desire to learn."
And
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... tml#island" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"Therefore, Ananda, each of you should remain with your self as an island, your self as your refuge, without anything else as a refuge. Remain with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as your refuge, without anything else as a refuge. And how does a monk remain with his self as an island, his self as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge? How does he remain with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This is how a monk remains with his self as an island, his self as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as his refuge, without anything else as a refuge. For those who — now or after I am gone — remain with their self as an island, their self as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, they will be the highest of the monks who desire training."
Pure deep Awareness is unconditioned, it is the true refuge
the unconditioned is the true safety, an island
The buddhas teachings are always pointing us to this deep, subtle awarness
When one is completely aware, there is no sense of self, no I making. There is no ignorance about dhammas as you see them as they are so there is no craving, no clinging and so there is no dependent origination anymore, no birth no death, no pain or fear and so no dukkha
There is just pure awareness of everything, seeing things as they are
Peaceful, calm and unconditioned
Still, flowing water
Metta
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
- salayatananirodha
- Posts: 1479
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:34 am
- Contact:
Re: Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.
no, consciousness is conditioned
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested