frank k wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:48 pmEven when Mahamoggallana heard sounds in the arupa samadhis, the Buddha called it "impure", he didn't say it disquailfied it from being an arupa samadhi, where Mogallana could drift in and out of hearing sounds or not.
Hi Frank. Could you quote the relevant passage? Which sutta/s does the above refer to? Thanks
frank k wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:56 pm
Here it is again, which you probably wont read again, but others may be interested.
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/e ... ndex.html
Jhāna in EBT
* In four jhānas, kāya, rupa refers to the flesh and blood anatomical body. Arupa means rupa (5 sense faculties) is divorced from mind. Vedana, sukha are experienced as sensations in the body.
* the body gradually fades into the background, from first through fourth jhāna.
* Low to moderate sounds, low to moderate body pain are possible to sense, but are generally also faded in the background.
* Loud sounds or strong body pain will most likely knock you out of the jhāna.
* The bliss of Piti and sukha are experienced in the body, it can be as strong as an intense full body orgasm that lasts hours.
Unlikely, few, if any, will be interested in the above, except to debunk it.
* In four jhānas, kāya refers the 'group' of aggregates that make up an experience. 'Rupa' refers to the flesh and blood anatomical body and its associated nervous system, when thoroughly calmed, breaks out into bliss. However, because the physical body is thoroughly calmed, the mind can no longer discern the breathing therefore can no longer discern the physical body. The mind's faculty of thought becomes one-pointed upon a mind-made mental image and can only feel the body's (rupa's) bliss in the brain.
*Arupa does not mean rupa (5 sense faculties) is divorced from mind. Arupa means there are no feelings thus objects that originate in the physical body that are objects of the meditation.
*Vedana, sukha are not experienced as sensations in the body. Vedana, sukha are sensations of the body experienced as sensations in the mind only or "brain" part of the rupa.
* The body disappears when the first jhāna is consummated.
* Low to moderate sounds, low to moderate body pain are impossible to sense
* Loud sounds will unlikely knock you out of the jhāna. There are suttas about monk in jhana and did not hear 500 carts go by.
* Strong body pain will most unlikely occur in the jhāna because the body is so tranquillised.
* If the bliss of Piti and sukha are experienced in the body & can be as strong as an intense full body orgasm that lasts hours; jhana would be extremely exhausting. I personally think anyone that compares jhana to orgasm has zero understanding of jhana.
One time, Pukkusa, I was staying near Ātumā in a threshing-barn. And on that occasion, when the rain-deva was raining, the rain-deva was pouring, lightning-streaks were shooting out, and a thunderbolt split (the air) not far from the threshing-house, two farmers—brothers—were killed, along with four oxen.
“Then a large crowd of people came out of Ātumā to where the two farmers—brothers—were killed, along with the four oxen. And on that occasion I, having come out of the threshing-barn, was doing walking meditation in front of the door to the threshing-barn. A certain man from the great crowd of people approached me and, on arrival, having bowed down to me, stood to one side. As he was standing there, I said to him, ‘Why, friend, has this great crowd of people gathered?’
“‘Just now, lord—when the rain-deva was raining, the rain-deva was pouring, lightning-streaks were shooting out, and a thunderbolt split (the air)—two farmers—brothers—were killed, along with four oxen. That’s why this great crowd of people has gathered. But you, lord: Where were you?’
“‘I was right here, friend.’
“‘But did you see anything?’
“‘No, friend, I didn’t.”
“‘But did you hear the sound?’
“‘No, friend, I didn’t.’
“‘But were you asleep?’
“‘No, friend, I wasn’t asleep.’
“‘But were you conscious?’
“‘Yes, friend.’
“‘Then, lord, being conscious & awake when the rain-deva was raining, the rain-deva was pouring, lightning-streaks were shooting out, and a thunderbolt split (the air), you neither saw anything nor heard a sound.’
“‘Yes, friend.’
“Then the thought occurred to that man, ‘How amazing! How astounding: the peaceful abiding by which those gone forth abide—in that, when the rain-deva was raining, the rain-deva was pouring, lightning-streaks were shooting out, and a thunderbolt split (the air), he would neither see them nor hear a sound!’ Having proclaimed immense conviction in me, he circumambulated me and then left.”
DN 16
‘So, sir, while conscious and awake you neither saw nor heard a sound as five hundred carts passed by right next to you?
‘So tvaṃ, bhante, saññī samāno jāgaro pañcamattāni sakaṭasatāni nissāya nissāya atikkantāni neva addasa, na pana
saddaṃ assosi;
Why sir, even your outer robe is covered with dust!’
apisu te, bhante, saṅghāṭi rajena okiṇṇā’ti?
‘Yes, friend.’
‘Evamāvuso’ti.
Then that person thought:
Atha kho, bhante, tassa purisassa etadahosi:
‘It’s incredible, it’s amazing! Those who have gone forth remain in such peaceful meditations,
‘acchariyaṃ vata bho, abbhutaṃ vata bho, santena vata bho pabbajitā vihārena viharanti.
https://suttacentral.net/dn16/en/sujato
STED definitions 
Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
) is not vaca but the base component.
