Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

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sentinel
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Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by sentinel »

I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide ? He laid down precepts in which not allowing to kill other people (including animals) yet not including killing own life ?
Isn't this is something illogical ?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by confusedlayman »

sentinel wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:11 am I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide ? He laid down precepts in which not allowing to kill other people (including animals) yet not including killing own life ?
Isn't this is something illogical ?
First precept is not taking life which includes not sucide commit
dont think
SarathW
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by SarathW »

In my opinion, suicide comes under wrong view.
The wrong view means the belief that you can end Samsara (or suffering) by other means except following the Noble Eightfold Path.
The wrong view is generally pointing towards the lower re-birth.
Unfortunately, I can't support my view from the Sutta.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by SarathW »

SarathW wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am In my opinion, suicide comes under wrong view.
The wrong view means the belief that you can end Samsara (or suffering) by other means except following the Noble Eightfold Path.
The wrong view is generally pointing towards the lower re-birth.
It is an inappropriate action.
Unfortunately, I can't support my view from the Sutta.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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robertk
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by robertk »

Attempting suicide is proscribed for monks. A dukkata or Pacittiya offense I think.
thepea
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by thepea »

sentinel wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:11 am I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide ? He laid down precepts in which not allowing to kill other people (including animals) yet not including killing own life ?
Isn't this is something illogical ?
I always interpret as observe no killing as first precept. I don’t think buddha forbid anything. Just taught kamma.
justindesilva
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by justindesilva »

sentinel wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:11 am I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide ? He laid down precepts in which not allowing to kill other people (including animals) yet not including killing own life ?
Isn't this is something illogical ?
While with our knowledge we would be poor subscribers of our views. Hence may I request those interested to go to the article suicide in Buddhism ....post canonical deflections written by Bikkhu Prof. Dhammavihari in the web www.metta.lk
There is so much explanation in this article about whether suicides of priests are offences.
dharmacorps
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by dharmacorps »

Unless one is an arahant and ill and getting worse, suicide is blameworthy.
thepea
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by thepea »

dharmacorps wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:22 pm Unless one is an arahant and ill and getting worse, suicide is blameworthy.
Some here are saying that an arahant has no aversion so would never committ suicide.

Robertk
An arahat would never attempt suicide. He has no aversion .

DNS
An arahant would not be reprimanded because an arahant would not attempt suicide, as noted by robert above. Bhikkhu Pesala is referring to a bhikkhu who is not an arahant.


Note: this discussion is better moved to monastics and suicide thread.
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cappuccino
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by cappuccino »

sentinel wrote: I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide?
see from his perspective

rather than from a normal perspective
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cappuccino
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by cappuccino »

the way to see from his perspective is to become like him
SarathW
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by SarathW »

justindesilva wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:24 pm
sentinel wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:11 am I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide ? He laid down precepts in which not allowing to kill other people (including animals) yet not including killing own life ?
Isn't this is something illogical ?
While with our knowledge we would be poor subscribers of our views. Hence may I request those interested to go to the article suicide in Buddhism ....post canonical deflections written by Bikkhu Prof. Dhammavihari in the web www.metta.lk
There is so much explanation in this article about whether suicides of priests are offences.
Which article it is?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
justindesilva
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:12 pm
justindesilva wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:24 pm
sentinel wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:11 am I am baffled why the Buddha never forbade people from committing suicide ? He laid down precepts in which not allowing to kill other people (including animals) yet not including killing own life ?
Isn't this is something illogical ?
While with our knowledge we would be poor subscribers of our views. Hence may I request those interested to go to the article suicide in Buddhism ....post canonical deflections written by Bikkhu Prof. Dhammavihari in the web www.metta.lk
There is so much explanation in this article about whether suicides of priests are offences.
Which article it is?
Please open the web www.metta.lk & read the contents of
" Suicide in Buddhism post Canonical deflections" written by Professor Dhammavihari.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by Dhammanando »

As killing oneself is usually an imprudent action, I think we might regard it as implicatively included in the class called parivajjanā pahātabbā āsavā, "taints to be abandoned by avoiding."
"What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by avoiding? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, avoids a wild elephant, a wild horse, a wild bull, a wild dog, a snake, a stump, a bramble patch, a chasm, a cliff, a cesspit, a sewer. Reflecting wisely, he avoids sitting on unsuitable seats, wandering to unsuitable resorts, and associating with bad friends, since if he were to do so wise companions in the holy life might suspect him of evil conduct. While taints, vexation, and fever might arise in one who does not avoid these things, there are no taints, vexation, and fever in one who avoids them. These are called the taints that should be abandoned by avoiding."
Discourse on all the Taints
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta
sentinel
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Re: Why the Buddha never forbade suicide ?

Post by sentinel »

Dhammanando wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:34 am As killing oneself is usually an imprudent action, I think we might regard it as implicatively included in the class called parivajjanā pahātabbā āsavā, "taints to be abandoned by avoiding."
"What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by avoiding? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, avoids a wild elephant, a wild horse, a wild bull, a wild dog, a snake, a stump, a bramble patch, a chasm, a cliff, a cesspit, a sewer. Reflecting wisely, he avoids sitting on unsuitable seats, wandering to unsuitable resorts, and associating with bad friends, since if he were to do so wise companions in the holy life might suspect him of evil conduct. While taints, vexation, and fever might arise in one who does not avoid these things, there are no taints, vexation, and fever in one who avoids them. These are called the taints that should be abandoned by avoiding."
Discourse on all the Taints
Bhante , this does not answer the question not killing precept include killing oneself . I don't understand , so , for a lay person to kill himself is not violating the precept of not killing ? Hence not breaking the killing precept which could cause a heavy karma probably ends up (down) in hells ! ?
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