Greetings.
It has happened now several times that Buddhists have apologized to me on behalf of other Buddhists, in matters of Dhamma propagation. In most cases, it's clear, that the Buddhist on whose behalf they were apologizing, knows nothing about it or whether there even is any wrongdoing on their part for which an apology would be in place.
So why do Buddhists do that? What is the purpose of such an apology? Is it some element of Dhamma propagation?
Thank you.
Apologizing on behalf of others
Apologizing on behalf of others
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
I think it's common everywhere, not just within Buddhism. People who consider themselves part of a group don't want the whole group to be thought badly of. Professionally, I had to offer apologies to people that the organisation I worked for had wronged. I have heard of white people apologising on behalf of other whites for the wrongs done to black people.binocular wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:52 am Greetings.
It has happened now several times that Buddhists have apologized to me on behalf of other Buddhists, in matters of Dhamma propagation. In most cases, it's clear, that the Buddhist on whose behalf they were apologizing, knows nothing about it or whether there even is any wrongdoing on their part for which an apology would be in place.
So why do Buddhists do that? What is the purpose of such an apology? Is it some element of Dhamma propagation?
Thank you.
If the apology around Dhamma propagation is about you being misinformed by another, they are probably trying to show how their interpretation is better. If it's about you somehow being treated badly, then they are probably trying to distance themselves (as "Buddhists") from that sort of treatment.
It also occurs to me that there is a range of different levels of personal responsibility within what we call apologies. At one extreme, we have personal apologies where the apologiser acknowledges doing wrong, and says s/he is sorry for it. At the other end of the spectrum, we have people expressing sympathy ("I'm sorry you had to go through that...it shouldn't happen that way...") for something they think shouldn't have happened, but which they didn't do.
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27859
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Greetings binocular,
Do you mean in an "I'm sorry that happened to you" kind of way, or literally apologizing on behalf of another person?
Metta,
Paul.
Do you mean in an "I'm sorry that happened to you" kind of way, or literally apologizing on behalf of another person?
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
The latter. E.g. "I apologize that those monks treated you that way."retrofuturist wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pmDo you mean in an "I'm sorry that happened to you" kind of way, or literally apologizing on behalf of another person?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Sure, and you did that in a professional capacity, you were just a spokesperson for the organization. In a religion, this can be different, esp. when there is no agreement as to the actual doctrine, rules of conduct etc., and no official spokesperson. The Catholic pope can apologize on behalf of other Catholics (because he is in that unique professional capacity to do so within the organisation of the RCC), but there is no parallel in Theravada Buddhism.
And so that apology has nothing to do with me.If it's about you somehow being treated badly, then they are probably trying to distance themselves (as "Buddhists") from that sort of treatment.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Yes, that's my understanding.binocular wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:29 pmSure, and you did that in a professional capacity, you were just a spokesperson for the organization. In a religion, this can be different, esp. when there is no agreement as to the actual doctrine, rules of conduct etc., and no official spokesperson. The Catholic pope can apologize on behalf of other Catholics (because he is in that unique professional capacity to do so within the organisation of the RCC), but there is no parallel in Theravada Buddhism.
Well, it's not really an apology in the sense that it would be if they had committed the perceived wrong. But I guess it is still "about you", because they are expressing regret that you - and not someone else - were treated in that way. It sounds like a nice gesture on their part.And so that apology has nothing to do with me.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12977
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
knowing the value of Buddhism, I have hope for othersbinocular wrote: Buddhists have apologized to me on behalf of other Buddhists
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12977
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
such is the perspective from which we apologize
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Perhaps it's just an English idiom? In a number of cases, Some Asian people have been perplexed when I have used the common English idiom: "I am sorry for your loss". Their response has been something like: "You didn't kill them, so why are you apologising?" (Sometimes followed quickly by the observation that "Everyone has to die, so don't worry...").
Mike
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
An apology is supposed to make things better for the person who was wronged. But an apology made by someone who was not involved in the wrongdoing in the first place does not have that effect.Sam Vara wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:51 pmWell, it's not really an apology in the sense that it would be if they had committed the perceived wrong. But I guess it is still "about you", because they are expressing regret that you - and not someone else - were treated in that way. It sounds like a nice gesture on their part.
- - -
Well, I expect Buddhists to be more mindful of their speech.mikenz66 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:24 amPerhaps it's just an English idiom? In a number of cases, Some Asian people have been perplexed when I have used the common English idiom: "I am sorry for your loss". Their response has been something like: "You didn't kill them, so why are you apologising?" (Sometimes followed quickly by the observation that "Everyone has to die, so don't worry...").
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
- Dhamma Chameleon
- Posts: 584
- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:55 am
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
In some cultures there is a convention of expressing regret that someone did something. "Sorry they did this to you and for its effects." Usually they're not in a position to offer an apology, as that requires genuine regret from the perpetrator or an official representative.
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Maybe the intention was just to express sympathy for the fact that you felt bad, which seems to be a positive thing.
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
They apologized because they felt that you were listening to the wrong teachings of Buddha by other Buddhists. May be I am wrong here. Anyone think I am wrong, please do let me know.
If you are listening to wrong teachings of the Buddha you will not be able to cross the "Seas of Sufferings" (as explain in Chinese Mahayana Buddhist- they called it the Seas of Sufferings- and ways to cross the seas.)
It would be more correct if you tell all the whites in New York to apologize to all the blacks as they walk down the street, just say, "I am sorry I am white" will do tremendous amount of good in view of the current bad relationship between blacks and whites.
If you are listening to wrong teachings of the Buddha you will not be able to cross the "Seas of Sufferings" (as explain in Chinese Mahayana Buddhist- they called it the Seas of Sufferings- and ways to cross the seas.)
It would be more correct if you tell all the whites in New York to apologize to all the blacks as they walk down the street, just say, "I am sorry I am white" will do tremendous amount of good in view of the current bad relationship between blacks and whites.
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Then why not, you know, just say so, given their extensive training in mindfulness and right speech ...
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Apologizing on behalf of others
Maybe saying sorry in that context was just intended as an expression of sympathy. "I'm sorry that it happened to you" is a way of expressing sympathy without accepting responsibility for the thing that befell you. Or maybe they just misjudged the tone. Either way, it's best to just assume they meant something good, and rejoice, and pass on.