Is oneness same as nothingness?

[form]

I am listening to Bhikkhu Thanisarro talks recently and I am now reading his writings. In his translation of one of his teacher's material, he seems to use the term oneness to replace the more commonly used nothingness.

Am I correct to assume that?

[sentinel]

No

[Ceisiwr]

Nothingness isn't anything. Nothingness does not exist beyond mere concept.

[DooDoot]

no

The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha directly knows earth as earth. But he doesn’t identify with earth, he doesn’t identify regarding earth, he doesn’t identify as earth, he doesn’t identify that ‘earth is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in earth. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.

He directly knows water … fire … air … creatures … gods … the Creator … Brahmā … the gods of streaming radiance … the gods replete with glory … the gods of abundant fruit … the Overlord … the dimension of infinite space … the dimension of infinite consciousness … the dimension of nothingness … the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception … the seen … the heard … the thought … the known … oneness … diversity … all … He directly knows extinguishment as extinguishment. But he doesn’t identify with extinguishment, he doesn’t identify regarding extinguishment, he doesn’t identify as extinguishment, he doesn’t identify that ‘extinguishment is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in extinguishment. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn1/en/sujato

[justindesilva]

no

The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha directly knows earth as earth. But he doesn’t identify with earth, he doesn’t identify regarding earth, he doesn’t identify as earth, he doesn’t identify that ‘earth is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in earth. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.

He directly knows water … fire … air … creatures … gods … the Creator … Brahmā … the gods of streaming radiance … the gods replete with glory … the gods of abundant fruit … the Overlord … the dimension of infinite space … the dimension of infinite consciousness … the dimension of nothingness … the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception … the seen … the heard … the thought … the known … oneness … diversity … all … He directly knows extinguishment as extinguishment. But he doesn’t identify with extinguishment, he doesn’t identify regarding extinguishment, he doesn’t identify as extinguishment, he doesn’t identify that ‘extinguishment is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in extinguishment. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn1/en/sujato

Oneness or nothingness is all about the mind. It has nothing to do anything with matter Rupa. Let me express this in another manner of experience. When I try to gather my past with my friends parents and whoever I realise that though I seem to remember it , it is nothingness or sunyata or non existent.
It is because of dependant co origination. There was a past which arise with Avidya. That was the condition of Sankara that created the following conditions as vingnana, nama Rupa
Salayatana, phassa, vedana, tanha, upadana, Bhava, jati, jaramarana; Each condition arises dependantly , and vanishes to become nothingness. All becomes a sunyata yet it is the mind at present ( a kshana) that could be said is in existence.
But all energies existing with the mind in a kshana can be grasped if the mind is void of lobha dosa moha. It is these klesha that does not allow the mind to unite as was shown by Lord buddas by taking Mara. Oneness is the collective mind overpowering all klesha.

[confusedlayman]

Nothingness isn't anything. Nothingness does not exist beyond mere concept.

I agree

[form]

Let me find the passage link and the exact timing to post here for your kind opinions.

[form]

https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Purit ... n0013.html

....... body started dissolving into a formless mist, this process would involve detecting the perceptions of “space,” “knowing,” “oneness,” etc., that would appear in place of the body and could be peeled away like the layers of an onion in the mind.

From middle portion of the second last paragraph.

Does it mean, infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness?

[santa100]

Ven. Bodhi's note citing the Comy's explanation on ekatta( oneness, or unity ):

Ekattam. Spk: He asks whether it has a permanent nature (niccasabhava);

In SN 12.48, it's one of the four views to be abandoned:

Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

And Ven. Thanissaro concurred in his essay "Jhana Not by the Numbers":

Once the breath was perfectly still, and the sense of the body started dissolving into a formless mist, this process would involve detecting the perceptions of “space,” “knowing,” “oneness,” etc., that would appear in place of the body and could be peeled away like the layers of an onion in the mind. In either case, the basic pattern was the same: detecting the level of perception or mental fabrication that was causing the unnecessary stress, and dropping it for a more subtle level of perception or fabrication until there was nothing left to drop.

[form]

Please stay on the topic. Based on my reference, does the article use oneness to represent nothingness?

[confusedlayman]

one ness means conceptually u perceive same everywhere or in n number of object of observation.

if something like color shape etc is used to describe sameness of continuity then its oneness. but if space is used its both oneness as well as nothingness.

[bodom]

Article from Bhikkhu Thanissaro

We Are Not One
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Noble ... n0007.html

[DooDoot]

I agree

The above agreement is wrong. Nothingness is not a concept.

[confusedlayman]

I agree

The above agreement is wrong. Nothingness is not a concept.

Why

[DooDoot]

Why

Why. Nothingness is not a concept. This idea is the puthujjana doctrine of the puthujjana Nagarjuna.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of perceptions of [physical] form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, [perceiving,] 'Infinite space,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of space.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, [perceiving,] 'Infinite consciousness,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, [perceiving,] 'There is nothing,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of nothingness.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Nothingness occurs when there are no more salient objects to perceive because the mind has become so pure with very refined samadhi; so the mind perceives: "There is nothing". After this, the mind stops perceiving.

A "concept" is always a concept about something. For example, the concept of "water" is about water. Water itself is not the concept. When you want to take a bath and clean the dirt from your body, it is not a concept cleaning the dirt from your body. When you are thirsty and need to drink water; it is not a concept quenching your thirst. Nothingness is the same. Nothingness is a thing but not the concept.

The Buddha did not ever teach things are merely concepts. Your doctrine is Mahayana; which is wrong view. This false ideology is SteRo ideology and Nagarjuna foolishness. Nagarjuna was puthujjana. The Buddha taught the PEACEFULNESS & JOY of ending five hindrances. Nagarjuna cannot end the five hindrances.