How do you understand the role of sleeping in the way we perceive the world?This being, that is;
from the arising of this, that arises;
this not being, that is not;
from the cessation of this, that ceases.
Thanks
How do you understand the role of sleeping in the way we perceive the world?This being, that is;
from the arising of this, that arises;
this not being, that is not;
from the cessation of this, that ceases.
NO dependent origination in deep sleep but if someone touch u and wake then DO starts..
To say there is no DO origination in deep sleep is DO in action. The Buddha made a distinction:confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:12 pm NO dependent origination in deep sleep but if someone touch u and wake then DO starts..
DO needs contact and conciousness of contact,,, in dreamless deep sleep not possible in absent of powerful stimulus
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.20/en/sujatoMendicants, I will teach you dependent origination and dependently originated phenomena.
Thanks for your input. I was not referring to dreaming, but to sleeping.form wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:30 pm When one is asleep, unconscious prevails. Impulses that are normally suppressed have the opportunity to express themselves. Dreams and fantasies become alive to satisfy desires, to balance the cravings. The contact are with mind objects only.
If one can go into a sleeping state while awake, that is another thing. The difference will be one is a concentrated mind while the one mentioned in my first paragraph is an unconcentrated mind. This set is one of the 8 pairs under foundation of mindfulness of mind.
This topic appears very commonly in many ancient Indian spiritual thoughts and has close link to Freudian psychology.
It's similar to intoxication in that both sleep and intoxication are typically desired, experienced as pleasurable, and resorted to as escapes from the troubles of life. Both sleep and intoxication operate on the premise "There's no other way to deal with life's problems than to try to escape them". For the way a person perceives the world this implies helplessness, powerlessness.
Thanksbinocular wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:00 pmIt's similar to intoxication in that both sleep and intoxication are typically desired, experienced as pleasurable, and resorted to as escapes from the troubles of life. Both sleep and intoxication operate on the premise "There's no other way to deal with life's problems than to try to escape them". For the way a person perceives the world this implies helplessness, powerlessness.
Sorry, I don't know how to explain to you properly.Bundokji wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:38 pmThanks for your input. I was not referring to dreaming, but to sleeping.form wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:30 pm When one is asleep, unconscious prevails. Impulses that are normally suppressed have the opportunity to express themselves. Dreams and fantasies become alive to satisfy desires, to balance the cravings. The contact are with mind objects only.
If one can go into a sleeping state while awake, that is another thing. The difference will be one is a concentrated mind while the one mentioned in my first paragraph is an unconcentrated mind. This set is one of the 8 pairs under foundation of mindfulness of mind.
This topic appears very commonly in many ancient Indian spiritual thoughts and has close link to Freudian psychology.
I did not encounter the notion of "sleeping state while awake" before. What is it that makes it a sleeping state to begin with?
In dependant origination the second conditioning is avidya paccaya sankara and the next is sankara paccaya vingnana.form wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:44 amSorry, I don't know how to explain to you properly.Bundokji wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:38 pmThanks for your input. I was not referring to dreaming, but to sleeping.form wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:30 pm When one is asleep, unconscious prevails. Impulses that are normally suppressed have the opportunity to express themselves. Dreams and fantasies become alive to satisfy desires, to balance the cravings. The contact are with mind objects only.
If one can go into a sleeping state while awake, that is another thing. The difference will be one is a concentrated mind while the one mentioned in my first paragraph is an unconcentrated mind. This set is one of the 8 pairs under foundation of mindfulness of mind.
This topic appears very commonly in many ancient Indian spiritual thoughts and has close link to Freudian psychology.
I did not encounter the notion of "sleeping state while awake" before. What is it that makes it a sleeping state to begin with?
No difference as far as conventional dreams are concerned. There seem to be many dreams one does not remember in wake state as one does not remember past lives. So it is difficult to say whether there is sleep without dreams.
Quite the opposite! Thanks for sharing what you know
Could you please share a link of Ven. Punnaji's teachings on ayu sankara?justindesilva wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:45 am In dependant origination the second conditioning is avidya paccaya sankara and the next is sankara paccaya vingnana.
Sankara is mainly threefold kaya sankara, vaci sankara and citta sankara while kaya sankara is connected to breathing.
While sleeping one breaths and the condition sankara is partially active. Hence Paticca samuppada while sleeping is not redundant and is active. Secondly rev.Punnaji thero explains that ayu sankara ( not often discussed) is metabolism which is also an active " sankara" during sleep. Hence when sankara is active Dependant co origination becomes active with next as nama Rupa and follows.
Sleep without dreams is usually the perception of having been absent for a length of time without recalling witnessing any other phenomena.SteRo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:52 am No difference as far as conventional dreams are concerned. There seem to be many dreams one does not remember in wake state as one does not remember past lives. So it is difficult to say whether there is sleep without dreams.
Lucid sleeping/dreaming is like cessation of ignorance in wake state.
I clearly remember it. If you address teachings of rev. Punnaji theros teachings on sankara you may find it. However his teachings are unique and science based.Bundokji wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:06 amCould you please share a link of Ven. Punnaji's teachings on ayu sankara?justindesilva wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:45 am In dependant origination the second conditioning is avidya paccaya sankara and the next is sankara paccaya vingnana.
Sankara is mainly threefold kaya sankara, vaci sankara and citta sankara while kaya sankara is connected to breathing.
While sleeping one breaths and the condition sankara is partially active. Hence Paticca samuppada while sleeping is not redundant and is active. Secondly rev.Punnaji thero explains that ayu sankara ( not often discussed) is metabolism which is also an active " sankara" during sleep. Hence when sankara is active Dependant co origination becomes active with next as nama Rupa and follows.
I dunno about so many pali terms. I usually use modern psychology to understand Buddhism.justindesilva wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:45 amIn dependant origination the second conditioning is avidya paccaya sankara and the next is sankara paccaya vingnana.
Sankara is mainly threefold kaya sankara, vaci sankara and citta sankara while kaya sankara is connected to breathing.
While sleeping one breaths and the condition sankara is partially active. Hence Paticca samuppada while sleeping is not redundant and is active. Secondly rev.Punnaji thero explains that ayu sankara ( not often discussed) is metabolism which is also an active " sankara" during sleep. Hence when sankara is active Dependant co origination becomes active with next as nama Rupa and follows.