Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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mikenz66
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by mikenz66 »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:59 pm The fact that we do something doesn't mean that there is a benefit to it. There may be a payoff or a reason why we choose it, but that's different from there being a benefit. ...
Indeed, this is the challenge, isn't it?
“Mendicants, if there were no gratification in the world, sentient beings wouldn’t love it. But because there is gratification in the world, sentient beings do love it.

If the world had no drawback, sentient beings wouldn’t grow disillusioned with it. But because the world has a drawback, sentient beings do grow disillusioned with it.

If there were no escape from the world, sentient beings wouldn’t escape from it. But because there is an escape from the world, sentient beings do escape from it.
...
https://suttacentral.net/an3.105/en/sujato
See also: https://suttacentral.net/an3.103 https://suttacentral.net/an3.104/

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Mike
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by Inedible »

Having contempt or disgust for using porn just adds to the problem.
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mikenz66
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by mikenz66 »

Inedible wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:34 pm Having contempt or disgust for using porn just adds to the problem.
Exactly. Getting past attachments is not easy. One has to see through them. Easier said than done...

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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by arkaprava »

This is a suggestion , you might try, it is somewhat effective :
Go on youtube, search for videos based on parts of the body you are attracted to , for e,g : breast. It is just fat wrapped in skin. Try to remember the image , whenever you feel lustful, remind yourself of that image, till the lust goes away.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by Mahabrahma »

A better suggestion is to utilize your natural propensity for human kindness, such as reading romantic novels that are healthy, with a deep story. Or watching a romantic movie or a film that has a story of Loving connection, with morality, perseverence, movies that are about overcoming this world and finding Love anyway. Or turn to music that discusses the subject of Love in a healthy way. Because you are looking for Love. The more you feel Love in a healthy way, the more you will turn away from lusts that have hurt your mind. Love purifies, and it is the only thing that can help you reach the other shore. As much as we weave and turn in Buddhism, explaining reality, explaining the Way, explaining the pitfalls, the Truth is that Buddhist compassion, Metta, and Love are the foundations of a True Buddhist practice, celibate or not. So in Truth, pursue Love, and you will find yourself happy and eventually freed from the cycle of Samsara. Ground yourself in Buddhism fully, utilizing all the practices, but still engage your Buddhist Heart in life.

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Chew SK
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by Chew SK »

Question is - did you solicit or otherwise
IF solicited, its your defilement
IF not solicited, use your mindfulness not to have any attachment if you could not avoid its apparent view .. but do not open to view its entirety by not opening the clip.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by confusedlayman »

look at autopsy body in internet then u lose porn or xx and be ashamed of ur own body and want to experience 3rd jhana always
dont think
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cappuccino
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by cappuccino »

white wolf wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:18 am Does pornography lead to rebirth in a lower realm?
lust and hate and delusion are contributing factors


people who are very lustful, are reborn in the lower realms


similar to hatred and delusion
TRobinson465
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by TRobinson465 »

greenjuice wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:57 am It doesn't. Only the dasa akusala kamma / ten unwholesome actions can lead to rebirth in lower realms. The ten are:

Wrong bodily conduct:
1 Killing and violence: "being a killer of beings, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, not having compassion".
2 Stealing: "taking what is not given, taking as a thief another's possession and property in the town or in the forest".
3 Sexual misconduct: having intercourse with minors, prisoners, those who are unwilling, monastics, or those who are in a closed marriage or a closed pre-marital relationship with someone else.

Wrong verbal conduct:
4 False witness: Speaking falsehoods, especially testimony "when summoned to a court or to a meeting and questioned as a witness, then, not knowing, one says 'I know,' or knowing, one says 'I do not know'."; consciously speaking lies.
5 Divisive speaking: Speaking maliciously about someone, backbiting, slander, spreading what one has heard for the purpose of causing conflict, creating divisions, enjoying conflict and division.
6 Unkind speaking: Speech which is rude, harsh, bitter, abusive, angry, not calm; speech that is not kind, not soft, not affectionate, not polite, not agreeable, not wanted, not pleasant (to those it is spoken to).
7 Worthless speaking: talk which is inappropriate (with regards to when or where it is spoken), which is not factual, which is untruthful, unethical, or detrimental in some way.

Wrong mental conduct:
8 Greed, including especially envy, coveting of or begrudging another's property, or their status or popularity.
9: Malevolence: having a mind of ill-will, a mind affected by hate, especially wanting harm or death to others; being irritated when criticized; in general being angry, ill-disposed, resentful, ill-tempered.
10: Wrong view, ie moral nihilism: thinking "There is no point in doing good deeds, there are no rewards and punishments in the afterlife, there is no afterlife, there is no morality".

Immoral deeds are divided in three categories: 1 the worst acts, grave offenses: killing a human, sexual misconduct sex, grand theft, or religious lies, 2 very bad acts, serious faults: maiming /injuring a human, theft of something of middle value, lesser sexual misconduct (such as kisses and caresses), falsely accusing or slandering people, insulting or mocking someone, and starting conflicts (divisive speech), and 3 just bad acts, wrongdoings: dishonest gain, minor theft, killing animals (or having them killed), hitting humans, lying, unkind speech, worthless speech, being greedy, being stingy, and moral nihilism. Of course there are nuances with regards to context (eg killing a large animal is worse than killing a small animal), but this is enough of explanation for here.

The point is is that pornography doesn't violate any of these (except if it's pornography where the sex is unwilling or with minors, etc). Pornography in itself is not immoral.

But - having an addiction to it, like any addition and strong attachment - is problematic in practical sense, it can make a person waste time or energy or money they don't want to waste, and it certainly makes the person unhappy.

For any such issue, one should practice meditation in the right way, and train oneself in having things in one's mind (whether in the focus or in the periphery of consciousness) and be detached from them. What does this mean?

When doing focused attention meditation, we focus eg on breath, and whatever comes to our mind, we don't try to push it away, but we also don't focus on it, we leave it in the periphery of consciousness and focus on the breath. When doing open monitoring meditation, we just focus on whatever appears in our mind (perceptions, sensations, memory, image, verbal thoughts, emotions, etc) we don't push them away but we also don't get pulled away by them, we just sit and watch things appear and go away, watch them flow through.

When we get trained in these two practices of meditation, we can then apply these approaches to addictive thoughts and desires and impulses when they appear.

When applying this we train ourself to NOT feel aversion to such thoughts, we don't try to push them away, we just either watch them, or just leave them in the periphery of consciousness as we focus on something else (it can be breath meditation, or it can be just regular daily focus, eg on doing some work or chores, or whatever). If we hang on to aversion towards those thoughts, if we try to push them away, that will be counterproductive, it will only make them stay. It's like saying to yourself "I shouldn't imagine pink elephants, I shouldn't imagine pink elephants, I shouldn't imagine pink elephants, ..." - that is a sure way to continue imagining pink elephants. So, we train ourself to detach from the thoughts, to let them come, let them stay, and let them go, without trying to push them away and without being lead by them. When we get used to this, to being detached, then such thoughts stop being a problem. And through time - when they appear again and again, and we are detached, and we choose to not indulge in them nor to act on them, they then start to reduce in frequency and intensity, and we thereby start doing away with the addiction / strong habit.
Hi, this looks interesting. do you have a source (primary or secondary) that highlights these 10 unwholesome actions? Also, perhaps this is included in the 10 and just wasnt clear. but im pretty sure you are missing the 5th precept. Breaking the 5th precept can also lead to rebirth in the lower realms.
"The drinking of fermented & distilled liquors — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from drinking fermented & distilled liquors is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to mental derangement."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... than.html
porn im not quite sure, i assumed its not much different than regular sexual activity, which does not lead to lower rebirth so long as you are not having sex with forbidden groups of people (ppl married to other ppl, ppl under the protection of a guardian, celibate clergy, etc.). But for sure, porn is a bad practice that is unconducive and detrimental for your mind, and there are even scientific studies that show it has negative effects on your brain. You should certainly try to wean yourself off of it regardless.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
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greenjuice
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by greenjuice »

TRobinson465 wrote: Hi, this looks interesting. do you have a source (primary or secondary) that highlights these 10 unwholesome actions? Also, perhaps this is included in the 10 and just wasnt clear. but im pretty sure you are missing the 5th precept. Breaking the 5th precept can also lead to rebirth in the lower realms.
MN 41 for instance. I don't believe that drinking alcohol can get anyone in hell.
porn im not quite sure, i assumed its not much different than regular sexual activity, which does not lead to lower rebirth so long as you are not having sex with forbidden groups of people (ppl married to other ppl, ppl under the protection of a guardian, celibate clergy, etc.). But for sure, porn is a bad practice that is unconducive and detrimental for your mind, and there are even scientific studies that show it has negative effects on your brain. You should certainly try to wean yourself off of it regardless.
Every pleasure should be enjoyed in a non-attached, non-binded way, porn is just one among them.
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by TRobinson465 »

greenjuice wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:35 pm I don't believe that drinking alcohol can get anyone in hell.
AN8.4 would suggest otherwise but you're free to believe what you want if you find it most conducive to your practice. there are literally people on this forum who dont even believe in literal rebirth and say the Buddha was an aristotlelan philosopher who just mentioned rebirth and heaven and hell as intricate metaphors for the present and only life so who am I to judge.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by skandha »

TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:35 am
greenjuice wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:35 pm I don't believe that drinking alcohol can get anyone in hell.
AN8.4 would suggest otherwise but you're free to believe what you want if you find it most conducive to your practice. there are literally people on this forum who dont even believe in literal rebirth and say the Buddha was an aristotlelan philosopher who just mentioned rebirth and heaven and hell as intricate metaphors for the present and only life so who am I to judge.
The object is not primary. It is the extent of our own craving, ill will, delusion in regards to the object, that has the potential for hell like suffering. It just so happens that drinking alcohol tends to be be more a cause for heedlessness and delusion than say drinking coffee. It is the extent of the craving of coffee, pornography etc. that leads to a lower realm.
Form is like a lump of foam, Feeling like a water bubble; Perception is like a mirage, Volitions like a plantain trunk, and consciousness like an illusion
- SN 22.95
TRobinson465
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by TRobinson465 »

skandha wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:07 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:35 am
greenjuice wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:35 pm I don't believe that drinking alcohol can get anyone in hell.
AN8.4 would suggest otherwise but you're free to believe what you want if you find it most conducive to your practice. there are literally people on this forum who dont even believe in literal rebirth and say the Buddha was an aristotlelan philosopher who just mentioned rebirth and heaven and hell as intricate metaphors for the present and only life so who am I to judge.
The object is not primary. It is the extent of our own craving, ill will, delusion in regards to the object, that has the potential for hell like suffering. It just so happens that drinking alcohol tends to be be more a cause for heedlessness and delusion than say drinking coffee. It is the extent of the craving of coffee, pornography etc. that leads to a lower realm.
I would personally disagree with your assessment due to the fact that intoxicants are listed in the 5 precepts and i would assume the 5 precepts are there for a reason and are explained as leading to hell in the suttas and a long line of theravada tradition.

https://suttacentral.net/an5.173/en/sujato

so i would not compare alcohol to things that indirectly lead to hell because of its possible effects on the mind, like gambling or pornography. I would compare it directly with the first four of the precepts as acts that in and of themselves can lead to bad rebirth directly with enough habitual kamma.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by cappuccino »

"The slightest of all the results coming from drinking fermented & distilled liquors is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to mental derangement."

Vipaka Sutta
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Re: Does pornography leads to rebirth in a lower realm?

Post by Strive4Karuna »

White wolf.
We can all tell from your post that you have a good heart. People like you do not end up in the lower realms. I would not worry. Be happy. You are a blessed being. You have great Kamma to be born as a human being. Even greater kamma have found the Buddha.

Stay blessed.
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