fruits of giving

[TRobinson465]

Hello,

Two things.

I remember someone showing me a chart about the fruits of giving and the weight of each. For instance, animals > immoral humans > humans who keep 5 precepts etc. Does anyone know where this is from and where i can find it? I am not talking about the Velama sutta, which I am already aware of. I think theres some Thai textbook or commentary that weighs the fruits from animal to the Sangha or something.

Second, is anyone aware of any commentaries or texts that explain the fruits of giving dhamma? Naturally this is hard to find in the suttas since the people who generally gave dhamma in the suttas were arahants anyways. So the fruits were irrelavent to them. I am curious if any such details exist on the results of giving dhamma at all.

[cappuccino]

The Message of the Velāma Sutta

[TRobinson465]

I actually ended up finding the text I was looking for on my own. Here it is if anyone finds it beneficial.

Tatr' Ānanda, tiracchānagate dānaṁ datvā
Here, Ānanda, having given a gift to an animal

sataguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a hundred-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

puthujjanadussīle dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to an unvirtuous ordinary person

sahassaguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a thousand-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

puthujjanasīlavante dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to a virtuous ordinary person

satasahassaguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a hundred-thousand-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

bāhirake kāmesu vītarāge dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to an outsider who is without passion for sensual desires

koṭisatasahassaguṇā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā,
a hundred-thousand times a hundred-thousand-fold offering is to be expected (in return),

sotāpattiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanne dānaṁ datvā
having given a gift to one who has entered upon the way to experiencing the fruit of Stream-Entry

asaṅkheyyā appameyyā dakkhiṇā pāṭikaṅkhitabbā.
an immeasurable, unlimited offering is to be expected (in return).

Ko pana vādo Sotāpanne?
What to say about a Stream-Enterer?

Ko pana vādo Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanne?
What to say about one who has entered upon the way to experiencing the fruit of Once-Returning?

https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/ ... PJJnQ4Dvvw

[tamdrin]

It seems that you are trying to find a way to "get the most bang for your buck" so to speak in terms of offerings. Where do you live? Here in Thailand I have met several monks who I believe must be ariyas. They never said this but it becomes apparent after being around them for a bit.

[confusedlayman]

It seems that you are trying to find a way to "get the most bang for your buck" so to speak in terms of offerings. Where do you live? Here in Thailand I have met several monks who I believe must be ariyas. They never said this but it becomes apparent after being around them for a bit.

I want to donate lots to monestry but i need karma to realize nibbana

[TRobinson465]

It seems that you are trying to find a way to "get the most bang for your buck" so to speak in terms of offerings. Where do you live? Here in Thailand I have met several monks who I believe must be ariyas. They never said this but it becomes apparent after being around them for a bit.

I live in the US. It was more out of curiousity than looking for bang for my buck, even though yes, i do believe that is important as well. But actually, if you read the rest of that sutta it says giving to the Sangha as a whole is actually superior to giving even to an ariya.

Tesu dussīlesu Saṅghaṁ uddissa dānaṁ dassanti
But even a gift that is given to those unvirtuous ones because of the Community

tadā pāhaṁ Ānanda Saṅghagataṁ dakkhiṇaṁ asaṅkheyyaṁ appameyyaṁ vadāmi.
at that time, Ānanda, will be an immeasureable, unlimited offering to the Community, I say. 26

Na tvevāhaṁ Ānanda kenaci pariyāyena,
I certainly in no way, Ānanda,

Saṅghagatāya dakkhiṇāya pāṭipuggalikaṁ dānaṁ 27 mahapphalataraṁ vadāmi.
say that a gift to an individual can have greater fruit than an offering to a Community.

[coconut]

Your intentions are a bit misplaced, while it is good to give to monks, that is not the intention behind the Buddhas words in the two suttas you referenced.

The Buddha ends those suttas meaning that attaining right view yourself is better than giving to someone with right view.

Also, the Buddha said that not everyone will accept the true dhamma, that means there will always be people with wrong view.

That means those with wrong view do the dirty work (killing animals, being soldiers, etc.), which the mundane right view people benefit from (buying meat, living in a safe society), and give to those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Therefore those with mundane right view (usually lay people) buy from wrong view (hunters and farmers) to feed those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Still the moral of the teaching is that your effort should strive for attaining Supermundane right view by carefully studying the four noble truths and dependent origination, and then confirming it in a jhana.

You have to start with right view by studying and understanding dependent origination and the four noble truths properly, and to do that you should study the first 4 nikayas.

[TRobinson465]

Your intentions are a bit misplaced, while it is good to give to monks, that is not the intention behind the Buddhas words in the two suttas you referenced.

The Buddha ends those suttas meaning that attaining right view yourself is better than giving to someone with right view.

Also, the Buddha said that not everyone will accept the true dhamma, that means there will always be people with wrong view.

That means those with wrong view do the dirty work (killing animals, being soldiers, etc.), which the mundane right view people benefit from (buying meat, living in a safe society), and give to those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Therefore those with mundane right view (usually lay people) buy from wrong view (hunters and farmers) to feed those with Supermundane right view (usually monks).

Still the moral of the teaching is that your effort should strive for attaining Supermundane right view by carefully studying the four noble truths and dependent origination, and then confirming it in a jhana.

You have to start with right view by studying and understanding dependent origination and the four noble truths properly, and to do that you should study the first 4 nikayas.

I agree with everything you said, like i said above, I was looking for the text more out of curiosity than looking for a fertile field of merit. For sure supramundane right view is more fruitful than any kind of offering one can make (although people should still practice giving offerings).