Where the mind should be at all time.

[coconut]

You should stick to being a spelling teacher if that's all you know how to do

Thanks! As I know how to do lots more than spell correctly, we can agree that your suggested restriction does not apply.

Why didn't you correct Alino's spelling mistakes hmm? Are you scurrying for whatever little power you can gather to boost your self esteem?

Your question appears ill-founded. If correcting spelling mistakes endowed one with power - and I don't think it does, holding as I do the Weberian view of power that it consists in the ability to change the behaviour of another - then correcting anybody else's mistakes would give me even more of it. There would presumably be no reason why correcting your mistakes would endow one with more power than correcting those of another.

The Buddha didn't teach "non-judgemental acceptance of whatever arises", but scrutinizing ones thoughts to see if they're wholesome or unwholesome.

I don't think I claimed that the Buddha did teach "non-judgemental acceptance of whatever arises"; merely that I liked Alino's metaphor, and additionally - since you raised the idea of palettes/palates - that it seemed to be in happy accordance with another part of the Vitakkasanthānasutta.

And I simply stated that his quote was contradictory to the Buddha's teaching.. And unfortunately your only viable retort was my spelling mistake, so pat yourself on the back for that one.

This quote by Alino is especially interesting, which I'm not surprised another ill informed forum member with an extreme wrong view of no-self.

You are on the right path because you have already mentioned that your thoughts are out of your control, you see them as not you, not yours, not your selves. They just comes and goes according to their own causes and conditions.

Which is something the Buddha did not teach, but quite the opposite

"And, yes, I think whatever thought I want to think, and don't think any thought I don't want to think. I will any resolve I want to will, and don't will any resolve I don't want to will. I have attained mastery of the mind with regard to the pathways of thought.

- Vassakara Sutta

Sounds like thoughts are very much within your control to me.

[Sam Vara]

And I simply stated that his quote was contradictory to the Buddha's teaching.. And unfortunately your only viable retort was my spelling mistake, so pat yourself on the back for that one.

Thanks! But in focussing upon the retort (palette/palate) you miss the point that there is, as it stands, no contradiction. If anything, that's even better than the retort, and a less sanguine person would be sad that there is no pat on the back for that.

[Alino]

"And, yes, I think whatever thought I want to think, and don't think any thought I don't want to think. I will any resolve I want to will, and don't will any resolve I don't want to will. I have attained mastery of the mind with regard to the pathways of thought.

- Vassakara Sutta

Sounds like thoughts are very much within your control to me.

I suppose that we can't control something without fully understanding it. And I suppose that we cant understand something if we destroy it without studying it closely.

Perhaps Lord Buddha suggested us to destroy the phenomenas with raw force only in the case while its complitely overwhelm our minds and there is no other, more wise, option...

But it's just my personal opinion, I can mistake

[coconut]

"And, yes, I think whatever thought I want to think, and don't think any thought I don't want to think. I will any resolve I want to will, and don't will any resolve I don't want to will. I have attained mastery of the mind with regard to the pathways of thought.

- Vassakara Sutta

Sounds like thoughts are very much within your control to me.

I suppose that we can't control something without fully understanding it. And I suppose that we cant understand something if we destroy it without studying it closely.

But it's just my personal opinion, I can mistake

I think your view of no-self needs to be re-evaluated as it slants too much on the nihilistic part, which is very common.

You can control a car, doesn't mean you are the car. The aggregates are an instrument you can play bad music with (bad kamma), good music with (good kamma), or no music with (supermundane).

However, what you can not control, is once something has arisen, it must cease, and there's no way to stop it from ceasing, hence death is guaranteed. This is what the Buddha is referring to not being able to control: aging, illness, and death. The only thing you can prevent, however, is grasping and thus future arising, and future death.

[Alino]

However, what you can not control, is once something has arisen, it must cease, and there's no way to stop it from ceasing, hence death is guaranteed. This is what the Buddha is referring to not being able to control: aging, illness, and death. The only thing you can prevent, however, is grasping and thus future arising, and future death.

Indeed

Anyway these was just imperfect illustrations of how I see it, but I can mistake and being complitely wrong with my approach to defilements. Its works for me, so I hope it can help others too. If yes - that's good, if not - don't take it.

Be happy

[sunnat]

.


Chachakka Sutta - http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books9/Bhikk ... _Sutta.htm

"Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta’s Grove, Anathapindika’s Park. There he addressed the bhikkhus thus: "Bhikkhus." - "Venerable sir," they replied. The Blessed One said this:

"Bhikkhus, I shall teach you the Dhamma that is good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end,...

[note: The Blessed One is addressing Bikkhus, ordained monks who have undertaken the precepts and are training to walk the path. So, as a Layperson not under those precepts it is a privilege to listen in to these words, always remembering that to properly understand and follow them aks that one seeks to perfect the silas, at least practice the 8 precepts, for example at Upposatha Day Observance.]

[here focusing on the Mindand thoughts, not forgetting that these instructions also apply to the other five sense doors etc]

"...
"The six internal bases should be understood. The six external bases should be understood. The six classes of consciousness should be understood. The six classes of contact should be understood. The six classes of feeling should be understood. The six classes of craving should be understood.
... [the six]
[internal bases]
There are the ... mind-base.
[external bases]
There are the ... mind-object-base.[thoughts]
[consciousness]
... dependent on mind and mind objects, mind-consciousness arises.
[contact]
... Dependent on mind and mind objects, mind-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is mind-contact.
[feeling]
... with mind-contact as condition there is mind-feeling.
[craving]
... with mind-feeling as condition there is mind-craving.
...
...
[not self]
...
"If anyone says, ‘Mind is self’, that is not acceptable. The rise and fall of mind is seen and understood, and since its rise and fall are discerned, it would follow: ‘My self rises and falls’. That is why it is not acceptable for anyone to say, ‘Mind is self’. Thus mind is not self.
...
mind-objects are not self.
...
mind-consciousness is not self.
...
mind-contact is not self.
...
mind-feeling is not self.
...
mind-craving is not self.
...
...
[origination of identity]
...
"One regards mind thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. One regards mind-objects thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. One regards mind-consciousness thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. One regards mind-contact thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. One regards mind-feeling thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. One regards mind-craving thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’."
...
...
[cessation of identity]
...
"One regards the mind thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’. One regards mind-objects thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’. One regards mind-consciousness thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’. One regards mind-contact thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’. One regards mind-feeling thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’. One regards mind-craving thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self’."
...
...
[The Underlying Tendencies]
...

..."Bhikkhus, dependent on the mind and mind-objects, mind-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is mind-contact; with mind-contact as condition there arises [a mind-feeling] felt as pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-not-painful. When one is touched by a pleasant mind-feeling, if one delights in it, welcomes it, and remains holding to it, then the underlying tendency to lust lies within one. When one is touched by a painful mind-feeling, if one sorrows, grieves and laments, weeps beating one’s breast and becomes distraught, then the underlying tendency to aversion lies within one. When one is touched by a neither-pleasant-nor-painful mind-feeling, if one does not understand as it actually is the origination, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to that mind-feeling, then the underlying tendency to ignorance lies within one. Bhikkhus, that one should here and now make an end of suffering without abandoning the underlying tendency to lust for pleasant mind-feeling, without abolishing the underlying tendency to aversion towards mind-painful feeling, without extirpating the underlying tendency to ignorance in regard to neither-pleasant-nor-painful mind-feeling, without abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge - this is impossible."
...
[The Abandonment of the Underlying Tendencies]
...
"Bhikkhus, dependent on the mind and mind-objects, mind-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is mind-contact; with mind-contact as condition there arises [a mind-feeling] felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant. When one is touched by a pleasant mind-feeling, if one does not delight in it, welcome it, and remain holding to it, then the underlying tendency to lust does not lie within one. When one is touched by a painful mind-feeling, if one does not sorrow, grieve and lament, does not weep beating one’s breast and become distraught, then the underlying tendency to aversion does not lie within one. When one is touched by a neither-painful-nor-pleasant mind-feeling, if one understands as it actually is the origination, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to that mind-feeling, then the underlying tendency to ignorance does not lie within one. Bhikkhus, that one shall here and now make an end of suffering by abandoning the underlying tendency to lust for pleasant mind-feeling, by abolishing the underlying tendency to aversion for painful mind-feeling, by extirpating the underlying tendency to ignorance in regard to neither-painful-nor-pleasant mind-feeling, by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge - this is possible."

[Liberation]

"Seeing thus, bhikkhus, a well-taught noble disciple becomes disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with eye-consciousness, disenchanted with eye-contact, disenchanted with eye-feeling, disenchanted with eye-craving.

"He becomes disenchanted with the ear, disenchanted with sounds, disenchanted with ear-consciousness, disenchanted with ear-contact, disenchanted with ear-feeling, disenchanted with ear-craving.

"He becomes disenchanted with the nose, disenchanted with odors, disenchanted with nose-consciousness, disenchanted with nose-contact, disenchanted with nose-feeling, disenchanted with nose-craving.

"He becomes disenchanted with the tongue, disenchanted with flavors, disenchanted with tongue-consciousness, disenchanted with tongue-contact, disenchanted with tongue-feeling, disenchanted with tongue-craving.

"He becomes disenchanted with the body, disenchanted with tangibles, disenchanted with body-consciousness, disenchanted with body-contact, disenchanted with body-feeling, disenchanted with body-craving.

"He becomes disenchanted with the mind, disenchanted with mind-objects, disenchanted with mind-consciousness, disenchanted with mind-contact, disenchanted with mind-feeling, disenchanted with mind-craving.

"Being disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion [his mind] is liberated. When it is liberated, there comes the knowledge: ‘It is liberated.’ He understands: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being.’ "

That is what the Blessed One said. The bhikkhus were satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One’s words. Now while this discourse was being spoken, through not clinging the minds of sixty bhikkhus were liberated from the taints.