Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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DooDoot
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by DooDoot »

BKh wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:45 am OK, that's a ridiculous characterization.
My recollection is the individual in question immediately gave a public talk heavily admonishing Venerable Ajahn Sumedho. A bhikkhuni of less than one year admonished a bhikkhu of over 30 years; similar to a daughter admonishing her own very benevolent father for not buying her a new car he could not obtain or afford; nor that she had the ability & qualification to drive.
BKh wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:45 am The OP would get better information from posting on the forum for suttacentral, https://discourse.suttacentral.net/. There are many bhikkhunis who participate there, probably because it is not as hostile as this forum.
Yes, the sect that appears to brazenly reject the Eight Gurudhammas in both thought and deed; as though it was women who attained Buddhahood, established the Sangha and spread the Dhamma; often via great sacrifice and risk to and even loss of life. :smile:
BKh wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:45 amI hope the mods keep this thread on topic and don't let it become another endless thread about bhikkhuni ordination.
The video below appears to exhibit proper training.

neuume wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:06 pm In my original question, I meant that they believe it's OK or desirable for Bhikkhunis to be able to ordain fully, not that that specific place necessarily ordains Bhikkhunis.
Hello. I imagine many monks would support bhikkhuni ordination however have both procedural and organizational issues around the matter. For example, in the distant past, famous Thai monks such as Ajahn Buddhadasa and Ajahn Chah supported establishing facilities for female practitioners but basically did not support the reintroduction of the bhikkhuni order for whatever reasons. I notice, at least in Australia, the impression of the bhikkhunis struggling to achieve autonomy. For example, the monastery near Ajahn Brahm in Western Australia appears in demand yet the affiliated but distant Santi Forest Monastery in New South Western apppeared to ask a Buddhist laywoman to ordain so they could have two bhikkhunis. It appears Ajahn Brahm continues to lead most of the fund raising activities for the bhikkhunis. I think it is dhammic of you to seek proper affiliation with the bhikkhus rather than seek a non-autonomous rogue feminism that falsifies the actual reality of the Sangha.

Best wishes. :anjali:
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BlackMagic
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by BlackMagic »

https://alokavihara.org/

If not there; I am sure the people there would be happy to point you in a suitable direction.

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TamHanhHi
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by TamHanhHi »

neuume wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:33 pm I am interested in exploring the possibility of becoming a Theravada forest monastic, and I am trying to find bhikkhu monasteries that recognize and support the full ordination of bhikkhunis. At this point, I'm aware only of the monastic communities affiliated with Ajahn Brahm in Australia, Bhante G's Bhavana Society in West Virginia USA, and the less traditional Empty Cloud/Buddhist Insights Monastery in New Jersey USA. Can anyone provide suggestions of Theravada monasteries in Europe, North America, or Asia that I should look into further? Thank you so much.
I'm personally not aware of more outside those already mentioned, but I believe Ajahn Piyasilo at Wat Pah Yenboon recognizes bhikkhunīs as bhikkhunīs, and maybe Sasanarakkha Buddhist Sanctuary in Malaysia. You'll find that the situation in Asia is ore complicated, because in a number of countries it is actually illegal for bhikkus to support bhikkhuni ordination, and they can be forcibly disrobed.
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by neuume »

Subject: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?
BKh wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:45 am One distinction that can be made is the difference between monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination and monasteries that support bhikkhunis. For example, Tisarana in Ontario is part of the Ajahn Chah tradition and does not publicly advocate for Bhikkhuni ordination. But they are very good friends with the bhikkhunis at a monastery about 20 minutes away. During the lockdown Tisarana has been sending food prepared in their kitchen to the nuns when there was no one there to cook.
...
The OP would get better information from posting on the forum for suttacentral, https://discourse.suttacentral.net/. There are many bhikkhunis who participate there, probably because it is not as hostile as this forum.
Thank you so much for your suggestion of the suttacentral.net forum - I knew of that website, but I didn't know they had a forum that might provide a different perspective from this one.

Also, do you happen to know anything about the considerations that might lead a monastery like Tisarana to be so supportive of bhikkhunis but not at least give more open voice to that? (I don't mean giving the level of support that Ajahn Brahm has given, just publicly stating what they seem to think on the subject.) In other words, do you have a sense of the tangible institutional or financial benefits of remaining connected to the broader Ajahn Chah network that might make them resist publicly stating their support? Do you think that their local lay supporters might remove support if they took that step?

Sending all good wishes in any event, and thank you again.
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by neuume »

TamHanhHi wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:33 pm
neuume wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:33 pm I am interested in exploring the possibility of becoming a Theravada forest monastic, and I am trying to find bhikkhu monasteries that recognize and support the full ordination of bhikkhunis. At this point, I'm aware only of the monastic communities affiliated with Ajahn Brahm in Australia, Bhante G's Bhavana Society in West Virginia USA, and the less traditional Empty Cloud/Buddhist Insights Monastery in New Jersey USA. Can anyone provide suggestions of Theravada monasteries in Europe, North America, or Asia that I should look into further? Thank you so much.
I'm personally not aware of more outside those already mentioned, but I believe Ajahn Piyasilo at Wat Pah Yenboon recognizes bhikkhunīs as bhikkhunīs, and maybe Sasanarakkha Buddhist Sanctuary in Malaysia. You'll find that the situation in Asia is ore complicated, because in a number of countries it is actually illegal for bhikkus to support bhikkhuni ordination, and they can be forcibly disrobed.
Thank you so much for this helpful response -- I really appreciate it.
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by zoz »

Maybe some of these linked sites can help you with your search. http://www.bhikkhuni.net/directory/
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by BKh »

neuume wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:27 pm Also, do you happen to know anything about the considerations that might lead a monastery like Tisarana to be so supportive of bhikkhunis but not at least give more open voice to that? (I don't mean giving the level of support that Ajahn Brahm has given, just publicly stating what they seem to think on the subject.) In other words, do you have a sense of the tangible institutional or financial benefits of remaining connected to the broader Ajahn Chah network that might make them resist publicly stating their support? Do you think that their local lay supporters might remove support if they took that step?
I'm really quite out of the loop and can't speak of the current dynamics. It is true that an association with Ajahn Sumedho, and the larger Thai sangha, has big financial rewards. As well, in order for a senior monk to have official Thai sanctioned ordination powers they need to be on somewhat good terms with the Thai sangha in general.

I am guessing that many senior monks, especially in the far off icy lands of Canada, don't feel that their public support of Bhikkhuni ordination would do a single thing to further the cause even if they wanted it to. However, their very public support of bhikkhunis personally does shift the Overton Window in a way that is not only non-confrontational but also in a way that cannot be argued against. Even the most hardhearted monk would not be able to argue with sharing food with the Bhikkhuni sangha in a time of pandemic.

On the internet things can seem very black and white, for or against. In the lives of the actual sangha, not so much. I know several Bhikkhunis that call up Ajahn Thanissaro to ask Vinaya questions and he answers them sincerely. But things like that don't fit the narrative.

Of course I'm not defending anyone's bad behaviour or their possibly bad motivations.
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara »

neuume wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:06 pm
Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:35 pm
as for the OP, when you say "support" do you mean that they believe it's ok to ordain, or that that specific place actually ordains Bhikkhunis?
Thank you for your responses, Bhante Jayasara. In my original question, I meant that they believe it's OK or desirable for Bhikkhunis to be able to ordain fully, not that that specific place necessarily ordains Bhikkhunis. Given that clarification, are there other monasteries in America, Asia, or Europe that you think it would be good for me to know about? Thank you again.
I know of none that have not already been mentioned.
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by neuume »

Thank you so much for the suggestions and replies, @BlackMagic, @TamHanhHi, @zoz, and @Bhikkhu_Jayasara - I'm grateful for your help.

And @BKh, I appreciate your replies and your thoughtful perspective on the situation monks such as those at Abhayagiri and Tisarana. Thank you so much for taking the time to lay out those ideas for me.
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Re: Bhikkhu monasteries that support bhikkhuni ordination?

Post by Samana_Johann »

Going forth and finding those on the path as well as access is a matter of honest determination, based on deep devotion and right view and demand as well as modern attitudes are very enemies of that. So may good householder always give the right causes for there natural arising effects. Mudita

Once strongly taken wrong as right and right as wrong it's hard to ever leave this wheel and so good to avoid oppositions and common ways at first place.
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