Source for the Pāli Canon in English

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BKh
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:22 am
BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am This is the Pali discussion forum and you keep posting links to non-Pali scriptures.
parallels -
Yes, but the OP is asking about Pali. This is a Pali forum. You could be clear that you are not pointing people to Pali. Please just be explicit with what you are linking to when you are doing it in a Pali forum.
48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:27 am I would generally disagree with this and say that when it come to english transaltions, the older the translations are better.
BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 amIt is also true that a 120 year old translation would not run the risk of Freudian influence.
This is exactly why I say the older translations are more trustworthy!
It doesn't make them any more trustworthy. It just means that they are free from certain influences. For example many early translations made use of Christian terms that are quite misleading. So when we go with these first generation 120 year old translations, we are really just swapping one influence for another. And on top of that they had far, far less knowledge of Pali. So it is not a net gain.
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48vows
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:14 am
48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:22 am
BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am This is the Pali discussion forum and you keep posting links to non-Pali scriptures.
parallels -
Yes, but the OP is asking about Pali. This is a Pali forum. You could be clear that you are not pointing people to Pali. Please just be explicit with what you are linking to when you are doing it in a Pali forum.
As an example, would a translation of a text from french into english, would be off the list ?

The op said he is buying english translations of the texts- that means english language and english script.

He also said-
dharmatheway84 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:59 pm As far as acquiring the full set of Pāli texts, I am more interested in the content rather than the books matching. As such, I will do some research before I acquire each volume.
The ones from bdk are good translations, printed in very nice looking books, at a reasonable price, with the pdfs online for anyone to look at before they bought them.

I get what your saying, but I stand by mys suggestion that he give those volumes a thought.
48vows
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

BKh wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:14 amIt just means that they are free from certain influences. For example many early translations made use of Christian terms that are quite misleading. So when we go with these first generation 120 year old translations, we are really just swapping one influence for another.
This is a good point !
It doesn't make them any more trustworthy.
I totally disagree with this. (The threads on Weinstein's therigatha illustrate this well I think)

I could make a case that the influences the early translators had (christianity, as you example) are more preferable to the influences that many modern translators would have.

I think it was one this forum that I once read something like - 'both orientals and westerners have their own cultural biases or assumptions or values, it just happens to be that one set is more conducive to the spiritual life than the other' (I'm paraphrasing from memory)

So I have no issue with someone who calls the buddha the almighty and calls nirvana salvation.
And on top of that they had far, far less knowledge of Pali.
Maybe.
But I think there was alot less money to be made back then.
BKh
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:51 pm The op said he is buying english translations of the texts- that means english language and english script.
...
The ones from bdk are good translations, printed in very nice looking books, at a reasonable price, with the pdfs online for anyone to look at before they bought them.
I think there might be some misunderstanding here. This is a Theavada forum and this discussion is happening in the Pali sub-forum. As I understand it, it's inappropriate to share links to books that are neither translations from Pali nor part of the Theravada tradition. Especially in a thread requesting "Source for the Pāli Canon in English."

Regarding the Weingast book, we should probably talk about that in the thread dedicated to it.
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

I am glad this thread has generated a healthy debate. This is good information for me to learn from.

Two of the books I have received so far are actually in Pāli, so this will be all the more incentive to get learning this language.

I apologize if I have posted info about any books that are not applicable to the Pāli forum. I am brand new to Buddhism.

Thank you all for the continued information.

-Michael
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Dhammanando
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by Dhammanando »

48vows wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:51 pm The ones from bdk are good translations, printed in very nice looking books, at a reasonable price,
That may be so, but since they are English translations of Chinese translations of Sanskrit texts from a non-Theravadin canon the appropriate place to post them is the resources thread of the Early Buddhism forum.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3167

In the present thread, where the OP is enquiring about English translations of Pali texts, your links are off topic.


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Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
BKh
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:50 pm I apologize if I have posted info about any books that are not applicable to the Pāli forum. I am brand new to Buddhism.
No, you haven't at all. Good luck with all you are learning!
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

This is my most recent order. I am just randomly purchasing the volumes based on what I can afford. Now I need to wait a month or so before adding any new ones. I figure, in a couple years, I will have the whole Pāli Canon. I can always replace volumes that are inferior or outdated translations. But, going forward, I am going to make sure each is a superior version of each.
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-Michael
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

Well, when I get on a kick, I just can't stop, haha. I just ordered this volume. Maybe I will put together the whole Pāli Canon in a year or so.
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

I found this used copy of the Digha Nikaya for $15 shipped.
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Now I need to do more reading what I have (most of it being available online anyhow, but I still prefer reading hard copies) and less buying for the time being.

I hope everyone is enjoying their Sunday.

-Michael
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

Again, I hope it's okay if I inquire about specific volumes of Pāli Canon literature before I buy them so I end up with good, current, complete versions. I will keep the inquiries within this same thread unless there is a good reason to start a new thread.

What do you all think of Jataka Tales by Ellen C. Babbitt? Online it says that this is the best 39 of 547 tales of the Buddha's former lives. Are there versions with all 547 tales included?

-Michael
BKh
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by BKh »

dharmatheway84 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:26 am What do you all think of Jataka Tales by Ellen C. Babbitt? Online it says that this is the best 39 of 547 tales of the Buddha's former lives. Are there versions with all 547 tales included?
Again, I'm going to generally recommend that you stay away from things over 100 years old. However, with the Jatakas, there isn't a complete modern translation.

The reason I recommend staying away from this book is that they are "retold." This is always a red flag. Retold is just another way of saying, "I made some of this up, or cut some things out, or both."

The jataka stories always happened in a context where there was a real situation happening the the time of the Buddha, and then the Buddha tells a story as a lesson. Most jataka books (new or old) cut this part out and just tell the story. Fine if you are looking for bedtime stories. Not so fine if you are interested in Buddhism.

The edition edited by Cowell (available here as an ebook) is complete and includes the framing stories. Bhante Anandajoti is issuing an updated version of this text, but likely not as a print book. Oddly, some of the sexual stories in the original publication were translated into Latin instead of English. Bhante is translating those into English.

Ken and Visahka Kawasaki have an anthology that is very close to Cowell's edition, most of their changes just being an updating of his language. They include the frame stories. And although it is an anthology, it still contains most of the stories. The one thing I don't like about their edition is that the verses are rendered in prose and not marked as such.

But I've already included this edition in the information in the ReadingFaithfully.org link.
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48vows
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by 48vows »

Again, I'm going to generally recommend that you stay away from things over 100 years old.
and again, I'm going to generally reccomend to stay away from newer translations.
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

My latest acquisition. Many more to go...

-Michael
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dharmatheway84
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Re: Source for the Pāli Canon in English

Post by dharmatheway84 »

Here's an interesting looking selection from the Pāli Canon, the Parivara. This is an old translation, but hopefully a favored one.

Has anyone read this particular volume?
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