mjaviem wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:40 pm
As I see it so far, I think because of the conditions and actions of the present life of this deluded 'being' (me, I'm a being from my deluded point of view which is not noble) a rebirth is going to happen on some realm when I die because of this clinging (of mine) is one condition for it.
To me, the above is speculation. There appears no evidence for it.
However, what I am certain about is because of the conditions and actions of the
present moment of this deluded 'being' (me, I'm a being from my deluded point of view which is not noble) a 'rebirth' is going to happen many times in some mental realm
before we die because of this clinging (of mine) is one condition for it.
mjaviem wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:40 pmSo, some set of aggregates including a physical body if in the human or the animal realm, establishes because of the conditions and actions of the past life of a being (me when I was alive), and it looks like a being to any deluded beings (like the one reborn who is setting a wrong view of itself and others) but not to noble persons, of course not, they don't see selves were there are not.
To me, all the above says is that in the future, due to self-delusions, the self-delusions will continue into the future. If you are 30 years old and live as long as the Buddha, if your mind doesn't not reach stream-entry, the self-delusions will continue for another 50 years. 50 more years of self-delusions. 50 more years of dukkha is not very nice. It would be most wonderful to live the next 50 years free from dukkha. When you post about future lives, your post seems to ignore the present reality that self-delusions will continue to afflict your mind
in the present if you are not enlightened.
If there is another life and more future lives, then many more 80 year lifetimes of self-delusions, until 80,000,000 billion years of self-delusions composed of 80,000,000,000 trillion self-delusions.
Therefore, if the self-delusions are not stopped now, today, when will they be stopped? If self-delusions are not stopped in this life, then what makes you think they will be stopped in the next life?
As for "aggregates", the Buddha did not appear to teach about "aggregates" for the purpose of "rebirth teachings". I doubt we will find any "rebirth teachings" about "aggregates". The "rebirth" teachings are similar to the teachings below, which does not mention to word "aggregates" (although the word "kaya/body" can refer to the aggregates):
'These beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. But these beings — who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech, & mind, who did not revile noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the good destinations, in the heavenly world.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .than.html
When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, his mind is already seized, debased, & misdirected by the thought: 'May these beings be struck down or slaughtered or annihilated or destroyed. May they not exist.' If others then strike him down & slay him while he is thus striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the hell called the realm of those slain in battle. But if he holds such a view as this: 'When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, if others then strike him down & slay him while he is striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of devas slain in battle,' that is his wrong view. Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Any beings who are not devoid of passion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of passion, focus with even more passion on things inspiring passion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of aversion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of aversion, focus with even more aversion on things inspiring aversion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of delusion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of delusion, focus with even more delusion on things inspiring delusion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Thus the actor — himself intoxicated & heedless, having made others intoxicated & heedless — with the breakup of the body, after death, is reborn in what is called the hell of laughter. But if he holds such a view as this: 'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas,' that is his wrong view. Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The above teachings focus on kamma rather than aggregates.
The purpose of the "aggregate teachings" is when the five aggregates are seen & viewed as the "five aggregates", there is no attributing "self" to the aggregates. Therefore the purpose of the aggregates teachings is to lead to Emptiness, to Not-Self, to Nibbana, to Non-Birth, Non-Death.
You keep posting about "aggregates". The "rebirth" teachings appear not about aggregates but appear about X, Y, X type of action leading to X, Y, Z type of result and destination.
mjaviem wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:40 pmI don't know, I see there's a long way to go
at least for me
Yes, there is a long way because it appears yet seeen clearly how certain actions in the present lead to certain results in the present or near future. The suttas say:
“Monks, not understanding and not penetrating four noble truths, both you and I have wandered and roamed for such a very long time.
“Catunnaṁ, bhikkhave, ariyasaccānaṁ ananubodhā appaṭivedhā evamidaṁ dīghamaddhānaṁ sandhāvitaṁ saṁsaritaṁ mamañceva tumhākañca.
DN 16
The Buddha said (in
AN 3.61) those who attribute past life kamma to their present circumstances remain "unprotected". Similarly, if it cannot be seen how certain actions in the present lead to certain results in the present, one remains unprotected. The "rebirth" teachings are about "kamma". If "kamma" is not understood then I doubt "rebirth" can be understood.
Kind regards