Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by SarathW »

Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Many of us do not know what Nibbana is. But we all are trying to attain it.
For me, it sounds like I am planning to go to the second moon on earth.
Then again Buddha's teaching is more clouded with ideas like a rebirth, Kamma Vipaka, dependent origination, etc.
We all assume that historical Buddha and his followers have attained something unique.
In another way, we are looking for something we lost but we don't know what we lost.
How can we achieve something if we do not know what we need?
Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Perhaps this is what Buddha meant by discarding the raft we have to stop even the pursuit of Nibbana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by form »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Many of us do not know what Nibbana is. But we all are trying to attain it.
For me, it sounds like I am planning to go to the second moon on earth.
Then again Buddha's teaching is more clouded with ideas like a rebirth, Kamma Vipaka, dependent origination, etc.
We all assume that historical Buddha and his followers have attained something unique.
In another way, we are looking for something we lost but we don't know what we lost.
How can we achieve something if we do not know what we need?
Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Perhaps this is what Buddha meant by discarding the raft we have to stop even the pursuit of Nibbana?
Dispassion then nibanna
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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am But we all are trying to attain it.
How? What exactly are u practising in your trying to attain it?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SarathW
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by SarathW »

Many Buddhists are expecting a favorable human rebirth or expect to be born in a higher realm.
But we do not know what rebirth or Nibbana is, so we create something in our own mind and try to attain it.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:13 am Many Buddhists are expecting a favorable human rebirth or expect to be born in a higher realm.
But we do not know what rebirth or Nibbana is, so we create something in our own mind and try to attain it.
So the Path to Nibbana of abandoning craving, attachment & self-view is not being practised. Instead, another path is being used, like walking the path to Rome when wanting to reach New York.
SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:13 am Many Buddhists are expecting a favorable human rebirth or expect to be born in a higher realm.
How? What exactly are u practising in your trying to attain the favourable and higher realms? Mere expectation?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SarathW
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by SarathW »

Don't we expect something following the Buddhist path?
Eliminate the ten fetters and realise Nibbana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Inedible
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by Inedible »

I thought the problem was that we are starting with the mirage and looking for something more reliable.
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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by cappuccino »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Nirvana is the peace of lack of madness


when we don't indulge in madness


(lack of delusion, of lust, of hate)
sphairos
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by sphairos »

Buddha created the whole thing only so there are Arahants in the world.

There are Arahants, I've met them and studied under them.

This is the only thing that matters in a real Buddhism: find Arahants to potentially become Arahants.
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justindesilva
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Many of us do not know what Nibbana is. But we all are trying to attain it.
For me, it sounds like I am planning to go to the second moon on earth.
Then again Buddha's teaching is more clouded with ideas like a rebirth, Kamma Vipaka, dependent origination, etc.
We all assume that historical Buddha and his followers have attained something unique.
In another way, we are looking for something we lost but we don't know what we lost.
How can we achieve something if we do not know what we need?
Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Perhaps this is what Buddha meant by discarding the raft we have to stop even the pursuit of Nibbana?
Nibbana is expressed as an element or asankata dhatu. It is the state of mind without loba ( passion) hatred or vexation (dvesha) and delusion ( ,moha). Hence nibbana is not a mirage.
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Eko Care
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by Eko Care »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Many of us do not know what Nibbana is. But we all are trying to attain it.
For me, it sounds like I am planning to go to the second moon on earth.
Then again Buddha's teaching is more clouded with ideas like a rebirth, Kamma Vipaka, dependent origination, etc.
We all assume that historical Buddha and his followers have attained something unique.
In another way, we are looking for something we lost but we don't know what we lost.
How can we achieve something if we do not know what we need?
Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Something somewhat related: Difference between Faith and Definite Conclusion?
Perhaps this is what Buddha meant by discarding the raft we have to stop even the pursuit of Nibbana?
Has the Blessed One asked disciples to discard the raft in the middle of the river?
Do you think you know better than the ancient Sangha ?
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anthbrown84
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by anthbrown84 »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Many of us do not know what Nibbana is. But we all are trying to attain it.
For me, it sounds like I am planning to go to the second moon on earth.
Then again Buddha's teaching is more clouded with ideas like a rebirth, Kamma Vipaka, dependent origination, etc.
We all assume that historical Buddha and his followers have attained something unique.
In another way, we are looking for something we lost but we don't know what we lost.
How can we achieve something if we do not know what we need?
Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Perhaps this is what Buddha meant by discarding the raft we have to stop even the pursuit of Nibbana?

This is simple, if you have even a slight bit of faith, then practise The Dhamma, and balance your own wisdom with that which The Buddha taught, and you yourself could very well know this mirage you talk of... Which is the ultimate irony seeing as everything other than Nibanna is infact the true mirage...

These sorts of philosophical questions are OK in some context, but they can not replace practise... No one can say anything to you about Nibanna that will change your thinking if you have this kind of idea... Practise The Dhamma and all will be revealed
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate
freedom
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by freedom »

SarathW wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Many of us do not know what Nibbana is. But we all are trying to attain it.
For me, it sounds like I am planning to go to the second moon on earth.
Then again Buddha's teaching is more clouded with ideas like a rebirth, Kamma Vipaka, dependent origination, etc.
We all assume that historical Buddha and his followers have attained something unique.
In another way, we are looking for something we lost but we don't know what we lost.
How can we achieve something if we do not know what we need?
Is this a pursuit to know the unknown?
Perhaps this is what Buddha meant by discarding the raft we have to stop even the pursuit of Nibbana?
Since this is a general Theravada discussion, it may not be appropriate for me to refer to non Theravada's stuffs. However, I think it may help for your inquiry, and if you don't mind, you can try to read some short poems from the "Songs of a vagrom angel" by Elsa Barker. This may help you to see a picture of a truly free person. From this, you may infer what is nibbana and if it is worth for us to pursue. The ebook is free from books.google.com.
One should not be negligent of discernment, should guard the truth, be devoted to relinquishment, and train only for calm - MN 140.
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by Bundokji »

Human existence has few certainties, so not knowing the goal of the spiritual life is to be expected. Having a unifying goal does not have to be an end in itself, but also a mean. For example, it helps us to stop chasing what has been exaggerated and short lived. It focuses our energies and channels them in more wholesome ways. It helps us organize ourselves in a world lacking a clear purpose where everything can be disputed. Faith in the spiritual life includes knowing that we have more to lose if we do not try, and that even if we do not attain the goal, we live diligently in a way suiting for someone in our situation. Avoiding the extremes (the all or nothing mindset) not attaining the goal can also mean ending up as better and wiser human beings while searching for it.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
SarathW
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Re: Nibbana. Are we chasing a mirage?

Post by SarathW »

I think instead of chasing an unknown Nibbana, we have to understand the known suffering or the reason why we have become Buddhists.
The question is what if I think that I am 100% happy and think I do not have any suffering?

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30709&p=446976&hil ... ou#p446976
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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