Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Jhana

Post by Coëmgenu »

Pulsar wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:55 pmYou can insult me all you want
Nonsense. No such thing happened. Please do not invent accusations to hurl at me.
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

Pulsar wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:32 pm Add Sutta Central to the mix according to the Seeker Ceaisivier, the Welsh guy. That will succeed in teaching us that Buddha learned First jhana from Jain Mahavira.
I see this has ceased to be a rational conversation, so I'll leave things there.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

Coëmgenu wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:49 pm In relation to your "Why be so hung up on identification," I think that very often that is how abusers get away with gaslighting those they tease, like children on a playground, on this very forum. "I just disparaged you in front of many. Why are you so obsessed with people who disparage you? You should quit whinging about who disparages you." Just like you don't like to be identified as a bird that chirps, I'm sure that Ceisiwr doesn't need to be identified as Caeiosiwiwr or other creative supposed "jokes" like that.
:goodpost:
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
suaimhneas
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Re: Jhana

Post by suaimhneas »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:20 pm In case this is a misunderstanding, my username has nothing to do with Caesar. I'm Welsh, and Ceisiwr is welsh for "seeker".
Cool! I'm Irish and tried to think of an Irish Gaelic word for a username (though I'm not particularly fluent in the language) that sounded at least somewhat Buddhist ("suaimhneas" means something like tranquillity/ease/calm). Great minds think alike I guess! :tongue: :lol:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

suaimhneas wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 4:01 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:20 pm In case this is a misunderstanding, my username has nothing to do with Caesar. I'm Welsh, and Ceisiwr is welsh for "seeker".
Cool! I'm Irish and tried to think of an Irish Gaelic word for a username (though I'm not particularly fluent in the language) that sounded at least somewhat Buddhist ("suaimhneas" means something like tranquillity/ease/calm). Great minds think alike I guess! :tongue: :lol:
:thumbsup:
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

You were blocked weeks ago. Just a kind reminder. You wrote
I see this has ceased to be a rational conversation, so I'll leave things there.
To leave things there therefore is a good idea.
With love :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Coëmgenu wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:37 pm
Pulsar wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:32 pmCeaisivier
Typical sad aggressive behaviour from you. Restrain your rage, please. We don't need typical Anglo digs at Celtic names.
Yea but how much you have to post Suttas that Cesiwr would start read these few lines and discuss on these. Ceiswir behavior could piss anyone out, he will duck for a while, no replies whatso ever till this topic surfaces again so he can spout some nonsense before things get detailed.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:“Mendicants, when a mendicant has three qualities they’re full of joy and happiness in the present life, and they have laid the groundwork for ending the defilements.
“Tīhi, bhikkhave, dhammehi samannāgato bhikkhu diṭṭheva dhamme sukhasomanassabahulo viharati, yoni cassa āraddhā hoti āsavānaṁ khayāya.
What three?
Katamehi tīhi?
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:They guard the sense doors, eat in moderation, and are committed to wakefulness.
Indriyesu guttadvāro hoti, bhojane mattaññū, jāgariyaṁ anuyutto.
literally jhana description.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:And how does a mendicant guard the sense doors?
Kathañca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu indriyesu guttadvāro hoti?

When a mendicant sees a sight with their eyes, they don’t get caught up in the features and details.
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu cakkhunā rūpaṁ disvā na nimittaggāhī hoti, nānubyañjanaggāhī;
If the faculty of sight were left unrestrained, bad unskillful qualities of desire and aversion would become overwhelming. For this reason, they practice restraint, protecting the faculty of sight, and achieving its restraint.
yatvādhikaraṇamenaṁ cakkhundriyaṁ asaṁvutaṁ viharantaṁ abhijjhādomanassā pāpakā akusalā dhammā anvāssaveyyuṁ. Tassa saṁvarāya paṭipajjati; rakkhati cakkhundriyaṁ; cakkhundriye saṁvaraṁ āpajjati.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:23 pm
Yea but how much you have to post Suttas that Cesiwr would start read these few lines and discuss on these. Ceiswir behavior could piss anyone out, he will duck for a while, no replies whatso ever till this topic surfaces again so he can spout some nonsense before things get detailed.
I reply at some length, usually to multiple people at a time. That, however, sometimes means I miss posts. And of course, I also have to work.
literally jhana description.
That is sense restraint. Something that needs to be practised for some time before there can be any jhānā.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:14 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:23 pm
Yea but how much you have to post Suttas that Cesiwr would start read these few lines and discuss on these. Ceiswir behavior could piss anyone out, he will duck for a while, no replies whatso ever till this topic surfaces again so he can spout some nonsense before things get detailed.
I reply at some length, usually to multiple people at a time. That, however, sometimes means I miss posts. And of course, I also have to work.
literally jhana description.
That is sense restraint. Something that needs to be practised for some time before there can be any jhānā.
quit your work.
.
so how one goes blind by "When a mendicant sees a sight with their eyes, they don’t get caught up in the features and details."?

in your own opinion there is nothing esoteric in buddha dhamma. That you said in 2009 and also recently.
Last edited by auto on Tue May 04, 2021 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:18 pm
quit your work.
That would be a dumb idea.
so how one goes blind by "When a mendicant sees a sight with their eyes, they don’t get caught up in the features and details."?
They don't.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
Posts: 2336
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:20 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:18 pm
quit your work.
That would be a dumb idea.
so how one goes blind by "When a mendicant sees a sight with their eyes, they don’t get caught up in the features and details."?
They don't.
tell me please what you mean by hard jhana

also why quit work is dumb idea? why not live off from others who like to work and earn money? there are plenty and even monks return to make money(to say how much people like to earn money).
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm
tell me please what you mean by hard jhana
I don't really like the term, but it means an absorbed state.
also why quit work is dumb idea? why not live off from others who like to work and earn money? there are plenty and even monks return to make money(to say how much people like to earn money).
For my own reasons I'm not going to ordain yet, which means I have to support myself.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
Posts: 2336
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:14 pm That is sense restraint. Something that needs to be practised for some time before there can be any jhānā.
i'm coming back to this reply.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:If the faculty of sight were left unrestrained, bad unskillful qualities of desire and aversion would become overwhelming. For this reason, they practice restraint, protecting the faculty of sight, and achieving its restraint.
You can't stop restraining the faculty before the defilements are ended,
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:..laid the groundwork for ending the defilements
hence achieving restraint.
guarding the senses is the groundwork for ending defilements a'la gradual ending of defilements 1 jhana, 2 jhana every jhana has defilement to end.

Other words you got to practice sense restraint also in the jhana. That is what hard jhana people disagree with, they think senses are off.
Last edited by auto on Tue May 04, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:10 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:14 pm That is sense restraint. Something that needs to be practised for some time before there can be any jhānā.
i'm coming back to this reply.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:If the faculty of sight were left unrestrained, bad unskillful qualities of desire and aversion would become overwhelming. For this reason, they practice restraint, protecting the faculty of sight, and achieving its restraint.
You can't stop restraining the faculty before the defilements are ended,
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.239/en/sujato wrote:..laid the groundwork for ending the defilements
hence achieving restraint.
guarding the senses is the groundwork for ending defilements a'la gradual ending of defilements 1 jhana, 2 jhana every jhana has defilement ended.

Other words you got to practice sense restraint also in the jhana. That is what hard jhana people disagree with, they think senses are off.
A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
Posts: 2336
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
yes. tho, hard jhana believer can twist what you said - One temporally shuts down senses and after emerging from said state can do vipassana.
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