Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:27 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
One temporally shuts down senses and after emerging from said state can do vipassana.
Correct, yes. The 5 senses at least.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:29 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:27 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
One temporally shuts down senses and after emerging from said state can do vipassana.
Correct, yes. The 5 senses at least.
that's what i thought, you were thinking something else than what you actually wrote.
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
hard jhana person is right if the moment last very short time. Some call it a blimp or going out or something like that a'la practioners like Daniel Ingram, i don't know who thought out this term.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:34 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:29 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:27 pm
One temporally shuts down senses and after emerging from said state can do vipassana.
Correct, yes. The 5 senses at least.
that's what i thought, you were thinking something else than what you actually wrote.
I think you misunderstood my post. I was criticising yours.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:38 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
hard jhana person is right if the moment last very short time. Some call it a blimp or going out or something like that a'la practioners like Daniel Ingram, i don't know who thought out this term.
Sounds unsubstantiated.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:45 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:34 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:29 pm

Correct, yes. The 5 senses at least.
that's what i thought, you were thinking something else than what you actually wrote.
I think you misunderstood my post. I was criticising yours.
i would understand if you would have said to this post 'i wasn't criticising yours'. I think you misunderstood to take my reply to mean above post,
i meant this post,
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
one can interpret it pro lite or pro hard jhana. So i was in a moment thinking that you actually aren't hard jhana promulgator but just devils advocate.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:51 pm
one can interpret it pro lite or pro hard jhana. So i was in a moment thinking that you actually aren't hard jhana promulgator but just devils advogate.
I see. I was responding to your post regarding practicing sense restrain whilst in the Jhānā. I'm not a devils advocate.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:45 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:38 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm A bit hard for the underlying tendencies to be activated via vision if one is not seeing anything.
hard jhana person is right if the moment last very short time. Some call it a blimp or going out or something like that a'la practioners like Daniel Ingram, i don't know who thought out this term.
Sounds unsubstantiated.
they have resume as a practioner, maps and terminology to describe their states of mind what occur. Also the blip what occur they say is a path fruit. So i just in the fly draw a real life occurring phenomena with senses off claim which(senses off) sound more like unsubstantiated considering the fact how many weird states occur.
Last edited by auto on Tue May 04, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:52 pm
auto wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:51 pm
one can interpret it pro lite or pro hard jhana. So i was in a moment thinking that you actually aren't hard jhana promulgator but just devils advogate.
I see. I was responding to your post regarding practicing sense restrain whilst in the Jhānā. I'm not a devils advocate.
what sounded like you are a pro lite(senses on) jhana.
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Ceisiwr you are blocked. Do not disrupt a thread on 10 fold path and jhana. Pl initiate your own
thread regarding "Jhana originated by Jain Mahavira, who died spewing blood due to his jealousy of Buddha"
Connections to other paths is a suitable Forum.
If you don't pay heed to this alert, I will report you to the Moderators.
Pl read the OP again.
Do the Welsh not speak English?

V. Dhammanado reminded the readers a few weeks ago
.
Just a reminder of the thread's topic:
Pulsar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:12 am
Jhana as a tool of ekayana, some sweep jhana aside as too difficult, and use negative terms such as 'jhana clingers', for those who practice this path of ekayana.
But the 4 rupa jhanas, when rightly practiced, constitute the 8th factor of noble Path. If one rejects these, by calling these special attainments, is it not a rejection of the noble Path?
I find it more difficult to maintain right speech at all times, as indicated in MN 117, I falter more there, than with my practice of jhana. How about yours?
Which attainment do you find easier? We all know that if we abstain from either of these, we are also not following the Noble Path. I like to hear from those that do not reject MN 117, because for me this is the one sutta that expounds the Noble Path to its end, defining each factor with great clarity, starting from right view, ending with right knowledge and right liberation. Again what is easier for you? Right speech or right concentration?
:candle:
Anyone wishing to discuss jhāna in relation to Hindu methods are invited to start a new thread in Connections to other Paths.
  • PS anyone wishing to discuss Jhana originated by Jains, pl. head towards "Connections to Other Paths"
With love :candle:
ToVincent
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Re: Jhana

Post by ToVincent »

Snotty sciolism can be a tad plethoric and tiresome, can't it?
.
.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
Buddha
(And you just can't imagine how much goodness, those who desire evil, are ready to display - ToVincent).
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

Pulsar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:56 pm ...
1. I wasn’t even talking to you. This is not your personal blog.

2. Everything I said was on topic.

I realise you do not wish for me to interact with you here, but I think I’m entitled to defend myself.
Do the Welsh not speak English?
In my parts we do as a first language, which of course partially comes from when Welsh children were literally beaten in school for speaking Welsh instead of English way back when. Up north it’s a first language, but most are bilingual.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not

:focus:
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Tue May 04, 2021 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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mikenz66
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Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Jhana

Post by mikenz66 »

Pulsar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:56 pm
  • PS anyone wishing to discuss Jhana originated by Jains, pl. head towards "Connections to Other Paths"
With love :candle:
I have not followed this thread particularly closely, but is the implication of this post that Jhana as described in Theravada Commentaries such as the Visuddhimagga, or as described by some modern EBT enthusiasts, should be moved to "Connections to Other Paths"?

That would seem odd for "A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism".

:heart:
Mike
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Jhana

Post by Coëmgenu »

I thought it was odd too, given that the dhyānas practiced pre-Gautama Buddha is an incontrovertible fact established thoroughly in Buddhist scripture, whether or not Jains supposedly developed them, and whether or not the idea of someone arguing that Jains developed them or originated them was a deceptive mischaracterization thrown out in bad faith.
The spotless mind,
the most highly pure, the tranquil,
all unspoiled phenomena supporting,
this name applying to the consciousness of the Tathāgata.

A bodhisattva, one of two vehicles, an ordinary person:
these are thrones which hold seeds subject to germination.
In acquiring the virtuous pure mind of a Buddha,
which is resolute suchness, the sūtra says:

The Tathāgata's spotless mind
is a pure place without outflows.
It is liberation from all bondage.
It is like a spherical mirror.
It is consciousness always in internal agreement.

(T1585.13a19 Vijñaptimātratāsiddhiśāstra)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Jhana

Post by Ceisiwr »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:41 pm I thought it was odd too, given that the dhyānas practiced pre-Gautama Buddha is an incontrovertible fact established thoroughly in Buddhist scripture, whether or not Jains supposedly developed them, and whether or not the idea of someone arguing that Jains developed them or originated them was a deceptive mischaracterization thrown out in bad faith.
In thinking about it further, I think it’s likely they had multiple origins. It’s conceivable that different ascetics from different traditions would independently stumble upon them. The formless too.
“The mental and material are really here,
But here there is no human being to be found,
For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll—
Just suffering piled up like grass and sticks.”


Visuddhimagga
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