Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

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manjusri
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by manjusri »

Does anyone know when these were first formulated and by whom? I am also curious if they can be found in the Theravada? I believe I was introduced to them through a teaching given by HHDL. Thanks, everybody.
SarathW
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by SarathW »

What are Dhamma seals?
It appears this a question for “connection to other paths “ question.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Dhammanando
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by Dhammanando »

manjusri wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:39 pm Does anyone know when these were first formulated and by whom?
The formulation is an Indian Mahayana one. The use of the seals as a yardstick for judging whether a teaching is Buddhist seems to be Tibetan; perhaps it has an Indian precedent, but I've yet to see one.
manjusri wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:39 pm I am also curious if they can be found in the Theravada?
It depends what you mean.

Are the four propositions that constitute the seals found in Pali sources? Yes, all four are in the suttas.

Are all four ever listed together under the name catulakkhaṇa? No.

Or under some other name? No.

Are the four propositions individually referred to as lakkhaṇas? No, only the first three are.

Are they ever presented as a criterion for whether or not a teaching can be accepted as Buddhist? No, not even in commentarial sources.

Is the word lakkhaṇa (= Skt. lakṣaṇa) ever glossed as a "seal". No, in Pali sources it's consistently understood to mean a "characteristic".
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
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Dhammanando
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:06 pm It appears this a question for “connection to other paths “ question.
The General Theravada forum is okay as a place for members to query whether Mahayana teaching X has a Theravada equivalent. If the thread develops into a protracted discussion about the meaning of X then it will be moved to the Connections forum.
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
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Dhammanando
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:06 pm What are Dhamma seals?
The first three are botched versions of Dhammapada 277-279. The fourth is "Nirvana is peace."
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
SarathW
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by SarathW »

Thank you Bhante
So what are four Dhamma seals?
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Dhammanando
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 1:24 am Thank you Bhante
So what are four Dhamma seals?
:D
I've already told you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Dharma_Seals

https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki/Four_seals
Anabhirati kho, āvuso, imasmiṃ dhammavinaye dukkhā, abhirati sukhā.

“To not delight in this dhammavinaya, friend, is painful; to delight in it is bliss.”
(Sukhasutta, AN 10:66)
asahi
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by asahi »

All compounded things are impermanent.
All contaminated things are suffering.
All phenomena are empty and devoid of self.
Nirvana is true peace.

The above appears inline with the teachings .
SarathW
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Re: Origin of the four (or three) dharma/dhamma seals?

Post by SarathW »

Why Four Noble Truths are not considered Dhamma seal.?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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