What is Nama-rupa?
After much thought about this subject, I came up with the following example for Nama-rupa.
Take a female figure for example. She is,
- the mother for the child
- wife for the husband
- sister for the siblings
- neighbor for the neighbour
- friend for a fried
-enemy for the enemy
- Food for a lion
so the same figure got seven different types of Nama-rupa for seven different people.
Hence we are living in a world of Nama-rupa created by ourselves.
Now take a mango.
What if two people see mango as something to eat?
Do both have the same Nama-rupa?
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What is Nama-rupa?
What is Nama-rupa?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
Designation/conceptualisation (literally name) and form/image, rather than “Mind & matter”.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
Brahminism. May you be well.
The above definition we can find in the Vedas, namely, father naming the form of his son.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
OP example is in line with the Sutta definition of nama-rupa.nāma:
Mental phenomena. A collective term for vedanā (feeling), saññā (perception), cetana (intention, volition), phassa (sensory contact) and manasikāra (attention, advertence). Compare rūpa. Some commentators also use nāma to refer to the mental components of the five khandhas.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
- Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: What is Nama-rupa?
As per DN 15, in the journey of descent into womb of consciousness to Non-miscarriage to youth to adult, it seems a lot less awkward to take Nama-rupa as Mentality-Materiality or mind-and-body than name-and-form.
Bhikkhu Bodhi
Mentality-Materiality
mind-and-body
Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu
Name-&-Form
Bhikkhu Sujato
Name & form
Bhikkhu Bodhi
Mentality-Materiality
- “It was said: ‘With consciousness as condition there is mentality-materiality.’
How that is so, Ānanda, should be understood in this way: If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would mentality-materiality take shape in the womb?”
“Certainly not, venerable sir.”
“If, after descending into the womb, consciousness were to depart, would mentality-materiality be generated into this present state of being?”
“Certainly not, venerable sir.”
“If the consciousness of a young boy or girl were to be cut off, would mentality-materiality grow up, develop, and reach maturity?”
“Certainly not, venerable sir.”
“Therefore, Ānanda, this is the cause, source, origin, and condition for mentality-materiality, namely, consciousness.
mind-and-body
- Buddha: As i have said earlier "Consciousness conditions mind-and-body."If consciousness were not to come into the mother's womb, would mind-and-body develop there?' Ananda: 'No, lord.' (If there's no mind, there's no body. There's nothing there)
Buddha: 'Or if consciousness, having entered the mother's womb, were to be deflected ..would mind-and-body come to birth in this life?' Ananda: 'No, Lord.' Buddha: 'And if consciousness of such a tender young being, boy or girl, were thus cut off, would mind-and-body grow, develop and mature?' Ananda: 'No, Lord.' Buddha: 'Therefore Ananda, just this, namely consciousness, is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition of mind-and-body.
Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu
Name-&-Form
- “‘From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.’ Thus it has been said. And this is the way to understand how from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would name-&-form take shape in the womb?”
“No, lord.”
“If, after descending into the womb, consciousness were to depart, would name-&-form be produced for this world?”
“No, lord.”
“If the consciousness of the young boy or girl were to be cut off, would name-&-form ripen, grow, and reach maturity?”
“No, lord.”
“Thus this is a cause, this is a reason, this is an origination, this is a requisite condition for name-&-form, i.e., consciousness.
Bhikkhu Sujato
Name & form
- ‘Consciousness is a condition for name and form’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so. If consciousness were not conceived in the mother’s womb, would name and form coagulate there?”
“No, sir.”
“If consciousness, after being conceived in the mother’s womb, were to be miscarried, would name and form be born into this state of existence?”
“No, sir.”
“If the consciousness of a young boy or girl were to be cut off, would name and form achieve growth, increase, and maturity?”
“No, sir.”
“That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and condition of name and form, namely consciousness.
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
- Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
V. Nanananda
𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
- Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
V. Buddhādasa
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
In the Upanishads nama-rupa can just mean something along the lines of “that being/thing over there”. In DN 15 we see two uses of nama-rupa. The one is simply a label for the being about to be born, whilst the other is nama-rupa as found in the 12 links. The one involved in processing sense experience. It’s not the only sutta which uses this other understanding of nama-rupa. What nama-rupa means in a sutta then depends on the context.Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:03 pm
As per DN 15, in the journey of descent into womb to Non-miscarriage to youth to adult, it seems a lot less awkward to take Nama-rupa as Mentality-Materiality or mind-and-body than name-and-form.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
I take it to be empirical reality.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
According to the following source:
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 ... 7412829_10Empirical reality is partly constituted by the infinity of possible worlds, one of which is the actual world, the subsistence of subjects of experience, and the mutual ontological and epistemological fit between subjects and objects of experience.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
Name and form is gandhabba?Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:03 pm As per DN 15, in the journey of descent into womb of consciousness to Non-miscarriage to youth to adult, it seems a lot less awkward to take Nama-rupa as Mentality-Materiality or mind-and-body than name-and-form.
Bhikkhu Bodhi
Mentality-Materialitysuttas.com
“It was said: ‘With consciousness as condition there is mentality-materiality.’
How that is so, Ānanda, should be understood in this way: If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would mentality-materiality take shape in the womb?”
“Certainly not, venerable sir.”
“If, after descending into the womb, consciousness were to depart, would mentality-materiality be generated into this present state of being?”
“Certainly not, venerable sir.”
“If the consciousness of a young boy or girl were to be cut off, would mentality-materiality grow up, develop, and reach maturity?”
“Certainly not, venerable sir.”
“Therefore, Ānanda, this is the cause, source, origin, and condition for mentality-materiality, namely, consciousness.
mind-and-body
Buddha: As i have said earlier "Consciousness conditions mind-and-body."If consciousness were not to come into the mother's womb, would mind-and-body develop there?' Ananda: 'No, lord.' (If there's no mind, there's no body. There's nothing there)
Buddha: 'Or if consciousness, having entered the mother's womb, were to be deflected ..would mind-and-body come to birth in this life?' Ananda: 'No, Lord.' Buddha: 'And if consciousness of such a tender young being, boy or girl, were thus cut off, would mind-and-body grow, develop and mature?' Ananda: 'No, Lord.' Buddha: 'Therefore Ananda, just this, namely consciousness, is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition of mind-and-body.
Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu
Name-&-Form
“‘From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.’ Thus it has been said. And this is the way to understand how from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would name-&-form take shape in the womb?”
“No, lord.”
“If, after descending into the womb, consciousness were to depart, would name-&-form be produced for this world?”
“No, lord.”
“If the consciousness of the young boy or girl were to be cut off, would name-&-form ripen, grow, and reach maturity?”
“No, lord.”
“Thus this is a cause, this is a reason, this is an origination, this is a requisite condition for name-&-form, i.e., consciousness.
Bhikkhu Sujato
Name & form
‘Consciousness is a condition for name and form’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so. If consciousness were not conceived in the mother’s womb, would name and form coagulate there?”
“No, sir.”
“If consciousness, after being conceived in the mother’s womb, were to be miscarried, would name and form be born into this state of existence?”
“No, sir.”
“If the consciousness of a young boy or girl were to be cut off, would name and form achieve growth, increase, and maturity?”
“No, sir.”
“That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and condition of name and form, namely consciousness.
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
It appears Gandhabba is Vinnana.Name and form is gandhabba?
Vinnana paccaya Namarupa.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
fake dhamma for converting brahmins, as Sujato (unoriginally) suggested
buddhas obviously do not contradict themselves by teaching two versions of consciousness, nama-rupa, etc
nama-rupa & consciousness is defined in SN 12.2
no. gandhabba is not vinnana. namarupa is 'inclination' ('nati'), per SN 12.40
When consciousness is established and has come to growth, there is inclination. When there is inclination, there is coming and going.
SN 12.40
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: What is Nama-rupa?
Consciousness and name&form is dual directional. They exist under such condition.