Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

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SarathW
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Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by SarathW »

Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na


Recently I contemplate Dukkha as my meditation with great results. So I was curious to investigate wherther it is in 40 meditation objects and discovered that it is not there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
TRobinson465
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by TRobinson465 »

I'm guessing because those are designed more for developing concentration/Samatha than on reflecting on the 3 marks.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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samseva
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by samseva »

The forty kammaṭṭhāna deal with tranquility meditation (samatha), while reflecting on the three characteristics (tilakkhaṇa) is not samatha, but insight meditation (vipassanā).
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:06 am Recently I contemplate Dukkha as my meditation with great results.
You were doing vipassanā meditation.
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Gwi
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by Gwi »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:06 am Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na


Recently I contemplate Dukkha as my meditation with great results. So I was curious to investigate wherther it is in 40 meditation objects and discovered that it is not there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
Maybe because it already has
"Upasamanussati".

Remember we vipassanā
(only in buddhism).
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
SarathW
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by SarathW »

"Upasamanussati".
What is this?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Gwi
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by Gwi »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:52 am
"Upasamanussati".
What is this?
Hehehe. I suer many buddhist
Forgot bout this meditation.

It is "recollection of the peace of nibbānå".
(Read Visuddhimaggå: after ānāpānasati)

I think Upasamanussati
Very suitable for old people
who have difficulty with other objects.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
SarathW
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by SarathW »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:03 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:52 am
"Upasamanussati".
What is this?
Hehehe. I suer many buddhist
Forgot bout this meditation.

It is "recollection of the peace of nibbānå".
(Read Visuddhimaggå: after ānāpānasati)

I think Upasamanussati
Very suitable for old people
who have difficulty with other objects.
The question is whether it is a part of the 40 meditation objects listed in the OP link.
PS:
OK thank you. I noticed it is listed after breath meditation.
I agree that I did not notice this. :D
The next question is whether you can find the four frames of reference as per Satipathana in 40 meditation objects.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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bodom
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by bodom »

SarathW wrote: The next question is whether you can find the four frames of reference as per Satipathana in 40 meditation objects.
They are found within the 16 steps of mindfulness with breathing. Mindfulness of breathing brings them to perfection.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Gwi
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by Gwi »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:00 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:03 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:52 am
What is this?
Hehehe. I suer many buddhist
Forgot bout this meditation.

It is "recollection of the peace of nibbānå".
(Read Visuddhimaggå: after ānāpānasati)

I think Upasamanussati
Very suitable for old people
who have difficulty with other objects.
The question is whether it is a part of the 40 meditation objects listed in the OP link.
PS:
OK thank you. I noticed it is listed after breath meditation.
I agree that I did not notice this. :D
The next question is whether you can find the four frames of reference as per Satipathana in 40 meditation objects.
That Suttå bout "vigilance".
Buddhanussati, Dhammanussati ...
Upasamanussati is "anussati".
It is little bit different with "sati".


Mp: Among the three characteristics,
if one is visible, then the other two are also visible.

So ... Upasamanussati = aniccå, dukkhå, anattā
(This meditation is hidden) :rofl:
Attachments
tmp-cam-301171035.jpg
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
SarathW
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by SarathW »

So ... Upasamanussati = aniccå, dukkhå, anattā
(This meditation is hidden) :rofl:
Could you find an English translation?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Gwi
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by Gwi »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:17 pm
So ... Upasamanussati = aniccå, dukkhå, anattā
(This meditation is hidden) :rofl:
Could you find an English translation?
"... When you perceive impermanence, the perception of not-self becomes stabilized ...." (AN 9.1)
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by bodom »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:24 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:17 pm
So ... Upasamanussati = aniccå, dukkhå, anattā
(This meditation is hidden) :rofl:
Could you find an English translation?
"... When you perceive impermanence, the perception of not-self becomes stabilized ...." (AN 9.1)
Yes this is an English speaking forum. Unless you are posting in the non-english sub forum please speak and post attachments that are in English or have an English translation. Thank you.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
SarathW
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by SarathW »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:24 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:17 pm
So ... Upasamanussati = aniccå, dukkhå, anattā
(This meditation is hidden) :rofl:
Could you find an English translation?
"... When you perceive impermanence, the perception of not-self becomes stabilized ...." (AN 9.1)
Perhaps you can use Google translation so you can translate them into English.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
waryoffolly
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by waryoffolly »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:06 am Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na


Recently I contemplate Dukkha as my meditation with great results. So I was curious to investigate wherther it is in 40 meditation objects and discovered that it is not there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
I’m not sure why later commentaries decided to not include aniccasanna/dukkhasanna/anattasanna in the list of meditation objects. I’d guess the conceptually rigid distinction between samatha and vipassana is the reason, which is not found in the suttas in my opinion.

However, in the (earlier) list of contemplations found in the bojjhanga samyutta SN 46.57-46.76 they are included: https://suttacentral.net/sn46-nirodhavagga

Notice that all 7 bojjhanga are developed along with the recognition of each of the three characteristics-ie samatha and vipassana are being developed together.
SarathW
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Re: Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

Post by SarathW »

waryoffolly wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:27 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:06 am Why do Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta not in 40 meditation objects?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na


Recently I contemplate Dukkha as my meditation with great results. So I was curious to investigate wherther it is in 40 meditation objects and discovered that it is not there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
I’m not sure why later commentaries decided to not include aniccasanna/dukkhasanna/anattasanna in the list of meditation objects. I’d guess the conceptually rigid distinction between samatha and vipassana is the reason, which is not found in the suttas in my opinion.

However, in the (earlier) list of contemplations found in the bojjhanga samyutta SN 46.57-46.76 they are included: https://suttacentral.net/sn46-nirodhavagga

Notice that all 7 bojjhanga are developed along with the recognition of each of the three characteristics-ie samatha and vipassana are being developed together.
Thanks.
Is this 40 meditation object idea comes from Visuudhi Magga?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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