That’s an interesting variation from the agama. I’m curious what is meant by “abides” - “dwelling” maybe?
🟩 On kāyagatāsati and kāye kāyānupassī, Part 2 (Week of 1/16/22)
Re: 📍 Sub-session to "On Kāyagatāsati" (Week of 1/16/22)
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: 📍 Sub-session to "On Kāyagatāsati" (Week of 1/16/22)
Isn't that just the Chinese translation of the Pali? It's in modern Chinese, no? If so, it wouldn't be an agama parallel.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: 📍 Sub-session to "On Kāyagatāsati" (Week of 1/16/22)
I checked , my apology , the text was translation from pali not agama .SDC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:40 pmThat’s an interesting variation from the agama. I’m curious what is meant by “abides” - “dwelling” maybe?
No parallel .
No bashing No gossiping
Re: 📍 Sub-session to "On Kāyagatāsati" (Week of 1/16/22)
The agama version is very interesting, because the locativity of the first "kāye" is lost
身身觀住
kāye kāyānupaśyi viharati
(as?/in/at) the body, the body-watcher dwells.
That rendering isn't totally from the Chinese on my own. The Chinese is sufficiently underdetermined that, if you did not already know the context, it would be very difficult to derive the Indic sense from the Sinitic. The rendering instead is based on Piya Tan's work. The locativity of "in the body" or "at the body" is completely obscured in the Chinese, as far as I can see.
You could also say
...bodily, the body-watcher dwells...
that is further from the Pali/Sanskrit but closer to the Chinese, as I see it.
身身觀住
kāye kāyānupaśyi viharati
(as?/in/at) the body, the body-watcher dwells.
That rendering isn't totally from the Chinese on my own. The Chinese is sufficiently underdetermined that, if you did not already know the context, it would be very difficult to derive the Indic sense from the Sinitic. The rendering instead is based on Piya Tan's work. The locativity of "in the body" or "at the body" is completely obscured in the Chinese, as far as I can see.
You could also say
...bodily, the body-watcher dwells...
that is further from the Pali/Sanskrit but closer to the Chinese, as I see it.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: 📍 Sub-session to "On Kāyagatāsati" (Week of 1/16/22)
Here's few different translations if you know chinese of course .
「身身觀念住」
「順身身觀住」
「觀身如身念處」
「於身隨觀身」
「於身觀身而住」
「身住循身觀」
「身身觀念住」
「順身身觀住」
「觀身如身念處」
「於身隨觀身」
「於身觀身而住」
「身住循身觀」
No bashing No gossiping
Re: 📍 Sub-session to "On Kāyagatāsati" (Week of 1/16/22)
Thank you for this contribution. I think it aligns with what the suttas in the OP are describing. As if to say, the watching of body is bodily, i.e. it is not towards sensuality, self or permanence.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:14 pm The agama version is very interesting, because the locativity of the first "kāye" is lost
身身觀住
kāye kāyānupaśyi viharati
(as?/in/at) the body, the body-watcher dwells.
That rendering isn't totally from the Chinese on my own. The Chinese is sufficiently underdetermined that, if you did not already know the context, it would be very difficult to derive the Indic sense from the Sinitic. The rendering instead is based on Piya Tan's work. The locativity of "in the body" or "at the body" is completely obscured in the Chinese, as far as I can see.
You could also say
...bodily, the body-watcher dwells...
that is further from the Pali/Sanskrit but closer to the Chinese, as I see it.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3