I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by JamesTheGiant »

auto wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:35 pm
Intent to have delicious food equals to having intent to hurt,
..
You misunderstand the vinaya. You should talk to some actual monks who know vinaya and they can set you straight.
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Deadelectronics
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Deadelectronics »

I quit after pondering on it. The reason why I said fast food was because they are close to where I am at and where I'll be staying at when I go back to the big city. Just a guaranteed job that will cover expenses until I get my certificates.
santa100 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:32 pm
Deadelectronics wrote:I don't want to work there anymore. The animal abuse and the toxic social links doesn't justify the money for me. I think it is wise for me to work at a fast-food place, build my experience there so when I move to another city where the minimum wage is higher than what they pay me at the chicken farm, I can have a better chance at getting hired and focus on my career.
It might be helpful to share more info like which country are you currently living in and education level (highschool diploma, 4-year degree, etc...) so that we can provide more relevant advices. For ex, in the states, one could find a job in healthcare without a 4-year degree without much difficulty. You'd only need to take some training courses and get some certificates like nurse-aid, pharmacy-technician, PT-aid, etc.. These career paths are much more wholesome in terms of right livelihood and the paycheck is pretty decent too.
I am in the states and already got my HS diploma. I originally wanted to be a vet tech, but it doesn't pay much, so now I am looking into IT and volunteering at wildlife rehabilitation centers and clinics when I have a chance.
auto
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by auto »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:09 pm
auto wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:35 pm
Intent to have delicious food equals to having intent to hurt,
..
You misunderstand the vinaya. You should talk to some actual monks who know vinaya and they can set you straight.
Sutta says,
https://suttacentral.net/mn55/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “Jīvaka, anyone who slaughters a living creature specially for the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple makes much bad karma for five reasons.
..
When they provide the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple with unallowable food, this is the fifth reason.
Based on the Sutta, the meat is unallowable if it is slaughtered specifically for the realized one. That meat is unallowable regardless if the realized one knows that it is slaughtered for him or not.
Same rule applies to anyone else too, just less bad kamma.
santa100
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by santa100 »

Deadelectronics wrote:I am in the states and already got my HS diploma. I originally wanted to be a vet tech, but it doesn't pay much, so now I am looking into IT and volunteering at wildlife rehabilitation centers and clinics when I have a chance.
Can't go wrong with IT. It's a pretty broad field with many subspecialties. While obviously one'd need at least a 4-year degree to earn top pay, it's not a requirement. Check out this link for more info on how to get into it: https://www.comptia.org/career-change/s ... t-a-degree
Jack19990101
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Jack19990101 »

auto wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:52 pm
JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:09 pm
auto wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:35 pm
Intent to have delicious food equals to having intent to hurt,
..
You misunderstand the vinaya. You should talk to some actual monks who know vinaya and they can set you straight.
Sutta says,
https://suttacentral.net/mn55/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “Jīvaka, anyone who slaughters a living creature specially for the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple makes much bad karma for five reasons.
..
When they provide the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple with unallowable food, this is the fifth reason.
Based on the Sutta, the meat is unallowable if it is slaughtered specifically for the realized one. That meat is unallowable regardless if the realized one knows that it is slaughtered for him or not.
Same rule applies to anyone else too, just less bad kamma.
Interesting perspective on MN 55. here is my take on MN 55.
I don't eat meat, thus this is not an argument against the great v-ism from.
I simply don't think Buddha has categorically forbidden eating meat, based on MN55 and some others.

MN 55 is detailed exposition on eating meat in relation to bad kamma.
Buddha lays out the kamma for two agents.
First agent, the monk who eats the meat. He, without knowing how it is prepared, is eating blameless food.
2nd agent, the donor who does the deed. He is doing bad kamma.

That means the same plate of food could be dirty for donor while stay clean for the taker.

That is how I understand it.

a few notes on the words mentioned imo -
For "if there is intention to hurt" being inquired, it is to use common term to describe Metta's entitled state.
"un-infatuated", the monks lack of fantasy upon gesture of nicety & respect.
"untied" means Monks is lack of mental calculation how to repay the generosity.

In my opinion, we got to stop talking about horrific stories about meat in supermarket. Those repulsive images could be peddling guilty, sadness to many. It makes meat dirty un-necessarily.
One buys meat without those stories, they don't make bad kamma.
One buys meat with those stories, they do make bad kamma.
It is very much a brain dump behavior. We got to tolerate those discomfort, not to dump on others for a brief release.
auto
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by auto »

Jack19990101 wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:20 am That means the same plate of food could be dirty for donor while stay clean for the taker.

That is how I understand it.

a few notes on the words mentioned imo -
For "if there is intention to hurt" being inquired, it is to use common term to describe Metta's entitled state.
"un-infatuated", the monks lack of fantasy upon gesture of nicety & respect.
"untied" means Monks is lack of mental calculation how to repay the generosity.

In my opinion, we got to stop talking about horrific stories about meat in supermarket. Those repulsive images could be peddling guilty, sadness to many. It makes meat dirty un-necessarily.
One buys meat without those stories, they don't make bad kamma.
One buys meat with those stories, they do make bad kamma.
It is very much a brain dump behavior. We got to tolerate those discomfort, not to dump on others for a brief release.
Buddha ate meat knowing it were specifically killed for him. General Siha who have penetrated the teaching known only to the buddhas(4 noble truths), he were at minimum a stream-entry, when ordered someone to bring meat(slaughter animal) so he could prepare a meal for the buddha.
https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd6/en/brahmali?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: ..
Just then a number of Jains were walking around Vesālī, from street to street, from intersection to intersection, holding up their arms and calling out,
“General Sīha has killed a large animal and made a meal for the ascetic Gotama. The ascetic Gotama is eating that meat knowing that the animal was killed for his sake.”
Jains didn't lie, instead they are mispresenting Buddha in a bad light(also not grasp what buddha is teaching),
wrote:A certain man approached Sīha and whispered to him what the Jains were doing.
Sīha said, “Forget about it. For a long time those venerables have disparaged the Buddha, the Teaching, and the Sangha of monks.
They will grow old and still keep on misrepresenting the Buddha with lies.
Then buddha laid down a rule, and i think it is for the sake of those Jains and others who mispresent Buddha and his disciples. If to read more about how the rules are laid down, its because of the bad reputation it causes.
https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd6/en/brahmali?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “You should not eat meat when you know the animal was killed for your sake.
“na, bhikkhave, jānaṁ uddissakataṁ maṁsaṁ paribhuñjitabbaṁ.
If you do, you commit an offense of wrong conduct.
Yo paribhuñjeyya, āpatti dukkaṭassa.
I allow you to eat meat and fish that is pure in three respects: you haven’t seen, heard, or suspected that the animal was killed for your sake.”
Anujānāmi, bhikkhave, tikoṭiparisuddhaṁ macchamaṁsaṁ—adiṭṭhaṁ assutaṁ aparisaṅkitan”ti.
bad rep can be also this,
wrote:On one occasion hunters killed a lion and ate the lion meat. And they gave lion meat to monks who were walking for almsfood.
After eating it, the monks stayed in the wilderness,
and because of the smell of lion meat, lions attacked those monks.
as a result a rule is laid down,
wrote:“You should not eat lion meat.
If you do, you commit an offense of wrong conduct.”
what Jains think about Buddha,
wrote:He then went to Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta and said,
“Sir, I wish to visit the ascetic Gotama.”
“But Sīha, why visit the ascetic Gotama who believes that actions don’t have results when you believe that they do?
For the ascetic Gotama believes in inaction, teaches that, and trains his disciples in that.”
by the teaching of inaction and actions having no results they might mean this teaching,
https://suttacentral.net/mn55/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “Any greed, hate, or delusion that might give rise to ill will has been given up by the Realized One, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and is unable to arise in the future.
My current conclusion is that when not infatuated by the meat eaten then the meat is allowable, pure in three respects.
Jack19990101
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Jack19990101 »

I believe u - as I don't have any memory or knowledge of those sutta.
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Ontheway
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Ontheway »

Just get another job. Maybe salesman, retail store, or others.
lf any teach Nirvāna is to cease,
Say unto such they lie.
If any teach Nirvāna is to live,
Say unto such they err.


- Sir Edwin Arnold
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Sam Vara
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Sam Vara »

Deadelectronics wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:20 pm I quit after pondering on it.
Excellent, I think you made the right choice. :thumbsup:
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Tangent-Man
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Tangent-Man »

Deadelectronics wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:20 pm I quit after pondering on it. The reason why I said fast food was because they are close to where I am at and where I'll be staying at when I go back to the big city. Just a guaranteed job that will cover expenses until I get my certificates.
Why don't you do care work? Is that a viable option in your country? In the UK care jobs are as easy to get as Fastfood etc. Then you could be earning some good karma and getting payed...
auto
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by auto »

look at this,
https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd6/en/brahmali?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: On one occasion a monk was possessed by spirits.
Tena kho pana samayena aññatarassa bhikkhuno amanussikābādho hoti.
His teacher and preceptor who were nursing him were not able to cure him.
Taṁ ācariyupajjhāyā upaṭṭhahantā nāsakkhiṁsu arogaṁ kātuṁ.
He then went to a pigs’ slaughterhouse, where he ate raw meat and drank blood.
So sūkarasūnaṁ gantvā āmakamaṁsaṁ khādi, āmakalohitaṁ pivi. Variant: āmakamaṁsaṁ → āmakamaṁsañca (bj)
As a result, he became well.
Tassa so amanussikābādho paṭippassambhi.
They told the Buddha and he said,
Bhagavato etamatthaṁ ārocesuṁ.

“For one who is possessed, I allow raw meat and raw blood.”
“Anujānāmi, bhikkhave, amanussikābādhe āmakamaṁsaṁ āmakalohitan”ti.
there is a line "They told the Buddha and he said," - the 'he..' is buddha who said?
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Sam Vara
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Sam Vara »

auto wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:10 pm look at this,
https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd6/en/brahmali?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: On one occasion a monk was possessed by spirits.
Tena kho pana samayena aññatarassa bhikkhuno amanussikābādho hoti.
His teacher and preceptor who were nursing him were not able to cure him.
Taṁ ācariyupajjhāyā upaṭṭhahantā nāsakkhiṁsu arogaṁ kātuṁ.
He then went to a pigs’ slaughterhouse, where he ate raw meat and drank blood.
So sūkarasūnaṁ gantvā āmakamaṁsaṁ khādi, āmakalohitaṁ pivi. Variant: āmakamaṁsaṁ → āmakamaṁsañca (bj)
As a result, he became well.
Tassa so amanussikābādho paṭippassambhi.
They told the Buddha and he said,
Bhagavato etamatthaṁ ārocesuṁ.

“For one who is possessed, I allow raw meat and raw blood.”
“Anujānāmi, bhikkhave, amanussikābādhe āmakamaṁsaṁ āmakalohitan”ti.
there is a line "They told the Buddha and he said," - the 'he..' is buddha who said?
From the quote, it certainly looks like it.
auto
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by auto »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 2:24 pm From the quote, it certainly looks like it.
Thanks
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Deadelectronics
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Deadelectronics »

santa100 wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:13 am
Deadelectronics wrote:I am in the states and already got my HS diploma. I originally wanted to be a vet tech, but it doesn't pay much, so now I am looking into IT and volunteering at wildlife rehabilitation centers and clinics when I have a chance.
Can't go wrong with IT. It's a pretty broad field with many subspecialties. While obviously one'd need at least a 4-year degree to earn top pay, it's not a requirement. Check out this link for more info on how to get into it: https://www.comptia.org/career-change/s ... t-a-degree
Thanks, I've decided to pursue a degree even though the certificates will be enough in case to I need a paper for a job. I also plan on attending an online Uni because it will be more flexible, and you can finish faster than those confined to a structured schedule in a brick and mortar institution.
Ontheway wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:45 am Just get another job. Maybe salesman, retail store, or others.
I tried the nearby ones, and I didn't get a call back. :shrug:
Tangent-Man wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:57 pm
Deadelectronics wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:20 pm I quit after pondering on it. The reason why I said fast food was because they are close to where I am at and where I'll be staying at when I go back to the big city. Just a guaranteed job that will cover expenses until I get my certificates.
Why don't you do care work? Is that a viable option in your country? In the UK care jobs are as easy to get as Fastfood etc. Then you could be earning some good karma and getting payed...
Don't you need to be a nurse? I already plan to volunteer in animal clinics and rehabilitation centers when I have a chance.
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Tangent-Man
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Re: I think my new job promotes wrong livelihood

Post by Tangent-Man »

Deadelectronics wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 1:05 pm Don't you need to be a nurse? I already plan to volunteer in animal clinics and rehabilitation centers when I have a chance.
I don't know what country you are from but in the UK (England) absolutely not. You need no qualifications whatsoever, although you sometimes have to agree to train on the job to NVQ Level 2 which is really easy and you can work and earn while you get the qualification. In the UK they are crying out for carers as not many people seem to want to do the job for some reason.

It doesn't seem like you need to be a qualified Nurse in the US either for entry level positions: https://comforcare-careerdays.careerplug.com/jobs

Something to think about perhaps?

:anjali:
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