Defending

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maniture_85
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Defending

Post by maniture_85 »

There can be the case where a noble person, having forgiven and tried many soft means for years, has decided to use all of its strength in order to defend himself from long lasting attacks, knowing it may have powerful and painful effects ( simbolically, but still ) on other beings who offedded and are offending him with hypocrisy and insensitivity.
Are there suttas refering to a situation like this?
Many thanks
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Defending

Post by JamesTheGiant »

What gives you the right to be not offended?
If someone offends you, are you going to kill them?
Sounds like someone seeking validation for a planned act of terrorism.
What are you talking about?
befriend
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Re: Defending

Post by befriend »

Monks turning their alms bowls upside down? So corrupt people can't make merit
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Defending

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
maniture_85 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:56 pm Are there suttas refering to a situation like this?
Many thanks
Dhp 223 wrote:Overcome the angry by non-anger;
overcome the wicked by goodness;
overcome the miser by generosity;
overcome the liar by truth.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view?" (SN 5.10)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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cappuccino
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Re: Defending

Post by cappuccino »

maniture_85 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:56 pm Are there suttas referring to a situation like this?
Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding.

Even then you should train yourselves: Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate.


Kakacupama Sutta: The Simile of the Saw
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Rambutan
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Re: Defending

Post by Rambutan »

maniture_85 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:56 pm There can be the case where a noble person, having forgiven and tried many soft means for years, has decided to use all of its strength in order to defend himself from long lasting attacks, knowing it may have powerful and painful effects ( simbolically, but still ) on other beings who offedded and are offending him with hypocrisy and insensitivity.
Are there suttas refering to a situation like this?
Many thanks
If there aren’t, then why write this to sound as though you are quoting one?
Alino
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Re: Defending

Post by Alino »

Resistance is suffering.
We don't suffer because of events, we suffer because we resist them.

There is so pressure/oppression when there is no surface/boundary.
If there is no boundary, there is no possible pressure.
If there is boundary, there is potential suffering, pressure, dukkha.

Avijja is when we dont see, when our eyes are obstructed. The main function of avijja is obstruct our vision of things as they are, to create boundary.

Any boundary is a convention. Boundary between countries, propriety, people, boundary of the body, boundaries of the mind - it's all conventions. Boundaries do not exist nowhere, only in created conventions. Avijja pushes us to create these conventions.

We shpuld ask ourselves : How my boundaries are created? By what my mind is obstructed?
Last edited by Alino on Thu May 05, 2022 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
maniture_85
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Re: Defending

Post by maniture_85 »

retrofuturist wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:50 am Greetings,
maniture_85 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:56 pm Are there suttas refering to a situation like this?
Many thanks
Dhp 223 wrote:Overcome the angry by non-anger;
overcome the wicked by goodness;
overcome the miser by generosity;
overcome the liar by truth.
Metta,
Paul. :)

The last is the sentence. Thank you, it has been useful.
maniture_85
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Re: Defending

Post by maniture_85 »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 7:53 pm What gives you the right to be not offended?
If someone offends you, are you going to kill them?
Sounds like someone seeking validation for a planned act of terrorism.
What are you talking about?
Please avoid posts like this in the future, those are offensive for the ones who posts them, and bad for the forum, and bad for buddhism.
Not sure what kind of immagination has caught you, but noone here talked about killing, making physical harm, or worse.
What are you talking about?

I answered your question,
now please answer mine.
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tellyontellyon
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Re: Defending

Post by tellyontellyon »

Simile of the saw?
“To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily. Not to dare is to lose oneself.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
Jack19990101
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Re: Defending

Post by Jack19990101 »

Not sure it is in the scripture. I remember the story of Ven. Maudgalyayana(?).
He tried many time to escape a clan of bandits who meant him harm.

But he recognized that it is kamma vipaka that the harm is bound to happen.
He stopped trying to avoid the bandits.

Not sure if it is accurate description of the story, the gist is it.
maniture_85
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Re: Defending

Post by maniture_85 »

Jack19990101 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:41 pm Not sure it is in the scripture. I remember the story of Ven. Maudgalyayana(?).
He tried many time to escape a clan of bandits who meant him harm.

But he recognized that it is kamma vipaka that the harm is bound to happen.
He stopped trying to avoid the bandits.

Not sure if it is accurate description of the story, the gist is it.
That is also very useful, thank you.
And it should be read as: he has to face bandits, not to get owned by them!
maniture_85
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Re: Defending

Post by maniture_85 »

tellyontellyon wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 3:57 pm Simile of the saw?
Sorry i don't understand.
santa100
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Re: Defending

Post by santa100 »

maniture_85 wrote:There can be the case where a noble person, having forgiven and tried many soft means for years, has decided to use all of its strength in order to defend himself from long lasting attacks, knowing it may have powerful and painful effects ( simbolically, but still ) on other beings who offedded and are offending him with hypocrisy and insensitivity.
Are there suttas refering to a situation like this?
Depends on what you meant by "noble person". If it meant "Noble person" (one who has attained one of the Four Noble Fruits), then chances are that Noble One would either patiently/gently respond out of compassion for the other party or equanimously move on if s/he recognizes it's fruitless to help. See the The Simile of the Saw Sutta for more details. But if it just meant a regular noble person in the mundane sense who has not attained any of the Fruits, but try to observe the Five Precepts the best they can, then they might've responded a bit more forcefully, as long as it's still within bounds of those basic precepts.
maniture_85
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Re: Defending

Post by maniture_85 »

santa100 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:48 am
maniture_85 wrote:There can be the case where a noble person, having forgiven and tried many soft means for years, has decided to use all of its strength in order to defend himself from long lasting attacks, knowing it may have powerful and painful effects ( simbolically, but still ) on other beings who offedded and are offending him with hypocrisy and insensitivity.
Are there suttas refering to a situation like this?
Depends on what you meant by "noble person". If it meant "Noble person" (one who has attained one of the Four Noble Fruits), then chances are that Noble One would either patiently/gently respond out of compassion for the other party or equanimously move on if s/he recognizes it's fruitless to help. See the The Simile of the Saw Sutta for more details. But if it just meant a regular noble person in the mundane sense who has not attained any of the Fruits, but try to observe the Five Precepts the best they can, then they might've responded a bit more forcefully, as long as it's still within bounds of those basic precepts.
Santa,
as Noble i mean one with at least a stream entry attainment, but referring to anagamis and above would be useful to me for further understanding.
Thank you
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