you wrote in an earlier message:
It also stands in relation to vivicca akusalehi dhammehi, which, obviously, must refer to the mental aspect alongside the preceding physical, perfectly in line with, for example, the Itivuttaka commentary quoted earlier ...
I looked at the Iti 72 cmy translation that you quoted again, and don't follow how that implies 5 senses shutdown. It only says that if one has been secluded from desire for an object, one must also be secluded from that object also. If you go into the forest to be secluded from objects of desire, that does not imply your 5 senses are shut down as soon as you entered the forest and are physically some distance from objects of desire. As another example, if chocolate cake is sitting in front of you and you close your eyes and plug up your nose, you've just physically secluded yourself from being able to detect the cake, but your 5 senses are not shut down.
As far as vivicca akusalehi dhammehi, I agree with Abhidhamma Vb., which says askusala dhamma represent all 5 hindrances in that first jhāna, and I would say even whatever other akusala 5 hindrances does not cover. The reason kamehi is redundantly and listed first, is the same reason as everywhere else in the suttas where kāma is conspicuously listed first, always public enemy #1 and deserves special mention and attention.
But just like with Iti 72, even if you say kāmehi is physical and akusala dhamma is mental, what exactly is the part you're interpreting 5 senses being shut off?
A. Bhikkhu wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 4:30 pm
frank k wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 11:26 am
I'd like to look at the commentary again. Does it actually say 5 senses are shut off? Or does it simply say both mental desire, and physical objects of desire are not present in that moment?
Greetings in Dhamma, Frank!
I think Ā. Guṇaratana, in his "Critical Analysis of the Jhānas", has translated and discussed the relevant passage quite faithfully. Rupert Gethin's "The Buddhist Path to Awakening" also takes it up, when I remember correctly. Just some references off the top of my head ...