Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
User avatar
Eko Care
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:13 am

Re: Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Post by Eko Care »

Doesn't that invalidate engaged Buddhism?
What is the reference for the existence of such a form of Buddhism?
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 16731
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Post by Ceisiwr »

cfekete wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 6:40 am

Formulate the question like, Why someone makes love? In the case of a family, wife and husband, it has the potential of having children. What are the points in other cases. In those cases the only point you may find is to hunt sensual pleasures.
I think the vast majority of the time, when a husband and wife have sex its not with a view to have children. I think quite often husbands and wives also engage in foreplay. Whilst they obviously will love one another, lust is always there. I think even when they have sex with a view to have a baby, the defilements are there. They want a baby after all. Is it your view then that sterile heterosexual husbands and wives are comitting sexual misconduct when they have sex?
The Buddha gave advice on how to be a good wife and husband. But he never gave advice e.g. how to be a good animal "partner". The suttas even contain examples of making love with animals. E.g. the case when the monk was living with a shemonkey. And the monk shared his alms food with her and the monkey gave sex as an exchange.
Likely because you can't have a relationship with an animal. As to homosexuals, its more likely he never addressed it because it wasn't recognised in the way it is today. Like in Rome, homosexual activity seems to have been viewed as just something less "picky" men do and, as in Rome, those who were giving were viewed better than those who were receiving. One hadn't compromised his masculinity, whilst the other had. Homosexual acts then were seen more through the lens of gender conformity rather than orientation. Of course today we live in a different world, and today in many countries homosexuals are recognised as an orientation. In terms of gays it's not because some men are less picky, its because some men really do just like and fall in love with other men.
The Buddha never gave advice, like cut off your penis and put on boobs "to be" a woman (refering to the T from the LGBT). 
The Buddha never said don't do cocaine either. Does that mean we can all rack up some lines, or does it mean we view cocaine use in terms of the spirit of what he taught? I think the latter. With homosexuals then, where it is legal, I think we should take a similar stance. That is to say how should homosexuals conduct their relationships inline with the spirit of the 3rd precept? That would be no cheating and the like. In regards though to transsexuals, their transitioning is a medical issue. It's a way of treating their gender dysphoria. The Buddha never disapproved of medical treatments.
“Thus, bhikkhus, I have taught you the unconditioned and the path leading to the unconditioned. Whatever should be done, bhikkhus, by a compassionate teacher out of compassion for his disciples, desiring their welfare, that I have done for you. These are the feet of trees, bhikkhus, these are empty huts. Meditate, bhikkhus, do not be negligent, lest you regret it later. This is our instruction to you.”

Kāyagatāsati sutta
User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 9677
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Post by Sam Vara »

Eko Care wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:08 pm
Doesn't that invalidate engaged Buddhism?
What is the reference for the existence of such a form of Buddhism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engaged_Buddhism
User avatar
Ontheway
Posts: 2126
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Post by Ontheway »

Deadelectronics wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 2:47 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 11:45 am And monks should not advocate for LGBTQ stuff. It is not suitable to tangle themselves with this worldly affair.
Doesn't that invalidate engaged Buddhism?
Did Lord Buddha advocates for such LGBTQ thing? :shrug:
lf any teach Nirvāna is to cease,
Say unto such they lie.
If any teach Nirvāna is to live,
Say unto such they err.


- Sir Edwin Arnold
sydimplosion
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:52 am

Re: Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Post by sydimplosion »

cfekete wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 6:40 am Formulate the question like, Why someone makes love? In the case of a family, wife and husband, it has the potential of having children. What are the points in other cases. In those cases the only point you may find is to hunt sensual pleasures.
Having children is not a skillful motivation to have sex, it's deliberately inviting a lifelong stress in your life that makes renunciation into homelessness near impossible for most laypeople. And the act of sex regardless of motivation induces sensual pleasure, only aiding in thirst for sensual desire. To advocate wrong dhamma by preference of this over any other is turning a blind eye to the real causes of suffering.

There is nothing wholesome about intentionally having children, doing so intentionally is bad kamma. Same for sex and same for romantic relationships, but those are less difficult to abandon than your own children. By any declaration of which romantic partners and sex is more wholesome than another is simply justifying unwholesome actions - provided the sex doesn't fall under the clearly defined precept of sexual misconduct in the suttas, which "ass hole" sex does not.

Same with advocating against surgical and hormonal transformation of form. Advocating against such transformation in favor of the one born in is still an attachment to form. Worse, it actively reaffirms that form is self!
User avatar
zerotime
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Does Dhammawheel Still Consider Pro-LGBT as Moral?

Post by zerotime »

dharmacorps wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:20 pm The Pali Canon, including the vinaya, describes openly a wide variety of straight and gay sexual practices, some of which are quite graphic and surprising to find in a document of its' vintage. On the whole, gay sexual practices are not singled out as "worse" or inherently immoral. They all originate in ignorance, lust, and attachment to the body. Does "pro-LGBT" mean pro-sex or is it just a statement of not agreeing with the predominant Abrahamic culture which assumes the wickedness of gay people? Western culture is starts with many assumptions which don't apply in a Buddhist context. Morality is personal ethical conduct, not handed down from on by a paternal, fertility cult creator god. In other words, the OP is asking the wrong questions.
:goodpost:

Experiments with sila appears when there is no faith or understanding, and then appears the trying and checking with uncertain results. If somebody have faith then the Buddha was right about the morality for laypeople and their progress for nibbana, there is no necessity to add or subtract.

However, in that context the pro-LGBT inside Buddhism doesn't have sense when nobody inside is promoting that Abrahamic culture to attack homosexuality.
Post Reply