The meaning of Sacca

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Bundokji
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The meaning of Sacca

Post by Bundokji »

Friends,

Sacca is often translated as truth and was mentioned in the first sermon by the lord Buddha when he taught the four noble truths.

Are there alternative translations of the term?

Thank you :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Sam Vara
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Sam Vara »

Reality, fact.
ToVincent
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by ToVincent »

Sacca (sat-ya) = truth belonging to the existing (sat) .
Truth about things of the world (salayatana nidana, and below - SN 35.82).

Usually a matter of useless dispute, because they don't address the highest.
Also, "truth" that are typically associated with wrong views - (again because they deal solely with the "world" .
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In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
Bundokji
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Bundokji »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:33 pm Reality, fact.
Thank you :anjali:

As one of the ten pāramīs, Sacca seems to mean truthfulness, hence the Ariya Sacca is often translated as noble truth. However, in Taoism for example, the teachings are framed as the way of earth (dukkha) and the way of heaven (sukha). The formulation of the 4NTs seems to allow for such translation/interpretation in the sense that the way of earth has a cause (samudaya), and the way of heaven has a path (the excluded middle/magga).

According to the above framing, Ariya Sacca would be "knower of the ways of earth and heaven". Such knowledge seems a necessary condition for cessation (nirodha).
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Bundokji
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Bundokji »

ToVincent wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 6:51 pm Sacca (sat-ya) = truth belonging to the existing (sat) .
Truth about things of the world (salayatana nidana, and below - SN 35.82).

Usually a matter of useless dispute, because they don't address the highest.
Also, "truth" that are typically associated with wrong views - (again because they deal solely with the "world" .
.
.
I am not sure if the highest can be described as "truth" because i cannot think of any truth that is not context sensitive.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
ToVincent
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by ToVincent »

Bundokji wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 6:54 pm
ToVincent wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 6:51 pm Sacca (sat-ya) = truth belonging to the existing (sat) .
Truth about things of the world (salayatana nidana, and below - SN 35.82).

Usually a matter of useless dispute, because they don't address the highest.
Also, "truth" that are typically associated with wrong views - (again because they deal solely with the "world" .
.
.
I am not sure if the highest can be described as "truth" because i cannot think of any truth that is not context sensitive.
?!
Sacca is mistaken truth - misguided by mistaken views, linked solely to the existing, (as delineated above).
Check the suttas with parallels + Snp 4 & 5.

I have a hard time to see what Tao has to do with trying to define sacca in its Pali context.
Maybe in the "connection to other paths" section?
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In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
Bundokji
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Bundokji »

ToVincent wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:01 pm I have a hard time to see what Tao has to do with trying to define sacca in its Pali context.
Maybe in the "connection to other paths" section?
Yes, that would be better suited for "connection to other paths" section. I was merely trying to explain why i was seeking alternative translations. The term "Jhana" translates into "heaven" in my mother tongue. Sorry for that.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Assaji
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Assaji »

Hi Bundokji,
Bundokji wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 3:17 pm Sacca is often translated as truth and was mentioned in the first sermon by the lord Buddha when he taught the four noble truths.

Are there alternative translations of the term?
See the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4283

:anjali:
Bundokji
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Bundokji »

Assaji wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:01 am Hi Bundokji,
Bundokji wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 3:17 pm Sacca is often translated as truth and was mentioned in the first sermon by the lord Buddha when he taught the four noble truths.

Are there alternative translations of the term?
See the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4283

:anjali:
Thank you :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
ToVincent
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by ToVincent »

Arya (ārya-faithful man/aryá-favorable) comes from the √ ṛ , which means to reach, to obtain.
The "favorable truth of the faithful man" is to obtain the (knowledge of the) "mistaken/misguided truth" (sacca). That is to say the truth of suffering, etc — the truth of everything negative in the existing (sat).
To reach the truth that all these suffering, views, low thinking, etc, are mistaken truths, is the favorable truth of the faithful (noble) man.

There is not one sutta where sacca is not linked to some of those negative occurences.

If it is called "noble truth", it is always linked to obtaining the knowledge of those misguided "truths".
Sacca is not "noble" per se. What is "noble" is to reach (faithfully) the knowledge of the misguided truth(s) - and the knowledge of how to get out of the all shebang.

Ultimately, the Four Noble Truths, are the Four Favorable Truths, that lead to escape the misguided sacca > (misguided "truths" belonging to the existing = sat-ya) .
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In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by Coëmgenu »

belonging to the existing = sat-ya
Nope. This is fake linguistics.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
ToVincent
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by ToVincent »

Coëmgenu wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:08 pm
ToVincent wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 1:02 pmbelonging to the existing = sat-ya
Nope. This is fake linguistics.
Sure, sure!

Satya [sat-ya]

:::::::::::
Sat
::::::::::
( pr. p. of √ as ) being , existing.

::::::::::::::
॰य -ya
::::::::::::::
gram. (with vṛddhi of theme) forms poss. adjective. (belonging to, about, deriving from) | forms nominal verbs. or causative (class 10) | forms neutral substantive of abstract quality of an adjective. | forms future passive participle, with passive sense of obligation, necessity, or possibility | forms intensives of repetition.
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Last edited by ToVincent on Sun May 15, 2022 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by auto »

ToVincent wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:33 pm .
hi, its good in my eyes
ToVincent
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by ToVincent »

auto wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:50 pm
ToVincent wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:33 pm .
hi, its good in my eyes
;)
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In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Re: The meaning of Sacca

Post by santa100 »

Bundokji wrote:Sacca is often translated as truth and was mentioned in the first sermon by the lord Buddha when he taught the four noble truths.
See Sacca definition for further details.
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