Hi Pali teachers ,
Here appear to translate arati as delight ? Is that correct ?
MāradhītusuttaSN 4.25
Then Māra’s daughters Craving, Delight, and Lust went up to Māra the Wicked, and addressed him in verse:
Atha kho taṇhā ca arati ca ragā ca māradhītaro yena māro pāpimā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā māraṁ pāpimantaṁ gāthāya ajjhabhāsiṁsu
arati
Re: arati
I read that correctly, thanks! I mean perhaps they were run together in the original text, thereby accounting for the extra "a". As the other two are close in meaning, perhaps the translator thought that aversion was out of place and assumed an error in the Pali. There is also contextual evidence for this; all 3 daughters in this particular sutta attempt to seduce and entice the Buddha, and are referred to as "shining, glittering", which would be out of place if it were boredom/discontent/aversion. If this is Sujato's translation, my guess is that he would value poetic truth over literalism.
Re: arati
Now that i have checked on agama , you are probably right since both sutras reads affection n delight .Sam Vara wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 1:53 pm I read that correctly, thanks! I mean perhaps they were run together in the original text, thereby accounting for the extra "a". As the other two are close in meaning, perhaps the translator thought that aversion was out of place and assumed an error in the Pali. There is also contextual evidence for this; all 3 daughters in this particular sutta attempt to seduce and entice the Buddha, and are referred to as "shining, glittering", which would be out of place if it were boredom/discontent/aversion. If this is Sujato's translation, my guess is that he would value poetic truth over literalism.
No bashing No gossiping
Re: arati
You could query it on this Sutta Central thread: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ke ... ypos/24120 It could be a typo, or Bhikkhu Sujato may have some good reason. I must say would sound odd in English if it were resentment.asahi wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:38 am Hi Pali teachers ,
Here appear to translate arati as delight ? Is that correct ?
MāradhītusuttaSN 4.25
Then Māra’s daughters Craving, Delight, and Lust went up to Māra the Wicked, and addressed him in verse:
Atha kho taṇhā ca arati ca ragā ca māradhītaro yena māro pāpimā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā māraṁ pāpimantaṁ gāthāya ajjhabhāsiṁsu
Mike
Re: arati
Here's a comment about a variant:
Mike
And here is a use of aratīThen Māra’s daughters Craving, Delight, and Lust went up to Māra the Wicked, and addressed him in verse:
Atha kho taṇhā ca arati ca ragā ca māradhītaro yena māro pāpimā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā māraṁ pāpimantaṁ gāthāya ajjhabhāsiṁsu: Variant: arati → aratī (sya1ed, sya2ed) | ragā → rāgā (sya-all)
https://suttacentral.net/sn4.25/en/suja ... ript=latin
See also:“Sensual pleasures are like swords and stakes
“Sattisūlūpamā kāmā,
the aggregates are their chopping block.
khandhāsaṁ adhikuṭṭanā;
What you call sensual delight
Yaṁ tvaṁ ‘kāmaratiṁ’ brūsi,
is now no delight for me.
‘aratī’ dāni sā mama.
https://suttacentral.net/thig3.7/en/suj ... ript=latin
“Even when I saw the sirens Craving, Delight, and Lust,“Disvāna taṇhaṁ aratiṁ ragañca,Sujato wrote: Māra’s daughters, the archetypal temptresses. Their failed seduction is told at SN 4.25.
Arati seems to be an error in the Pali tradition for rati.I had no desire for sex.Variants wrote:Variant: aratiṁ ragañca → aratiñca rāgaṁ (sya-all, mr)
Nāhosi chando api methunasmiṁ;
https://suttacentral.net/snp4.9/en/suja ... ript=latin
Mike
Re: arati
Hi Asahi,
This is wrong. Unfortunately, Sujato's translations are often misleading.
http://www.aimwell.org/DPPN/arati.htmlDiscontent (Arati), was one of the three daughters of Māra, the others being craving (Taṇhā) and lust (Ragā).
Re: arati
Regarding the three daughters of Māra, Choong Mun-keat provides also the Chinese versions of Mara Samyutta, p. 41, note 6:
- Attachments
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- Pages 40-2 from Mara Samyutta 2009 MK Choong.pdf
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Re: arati
I think that's what Bhikkhu Sujato's comment above is suggesting: viewtopic.php?p=676897#p676897
The paper you quoted was an interesting example of how studying parallels in from different schools may shed some light on possible errors.
Mike