When the the dust-free, stainless vision of the Dhamma arises it's like this:
"All that is subject to arising is subject to cessation." "“yaṁ kiñci samudayadhammaṁ sabbaṁ taṁ nirodhadhamman”ti. "
No need to wait for a change or for an end to come. As I understand it, this vision is "aparappaccayā", independent of others. It's not knowledge of history nor is it a prediction of the future. It is by finally understanding that everything is subject to cease.
Possibly, contemplating the river of life flowing can help in perceiving anicca but what we are adviced to not do is reflecting on the impermanence of the world. We'll be better off reflecting on dukkha.
SN 56.8 wrote:
“Bhikkhus, do not reflect in an evil unwholesome way: ‘The world is eternal’ or ‘The world is not eternal’...
...
“When you reflect, bhikkhus, you should reflect: ‘This is suffering’; you should reflect: ‘This is the origin of suffering’; you should reflect: ‘This is the cessation of suffering’; you should reflect: ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering.’ For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, this reflection is beneficial, relevant to the fundamentals of the holy life, and leads to revulsion, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna.
...
mjaviem wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 2:54 pm
What does it mean "the practice of inconstancy"?
The perceiving of impermanence, bhikkhus,
developed and frequently practiced, removes all
sensual passion, removes all passion for material
existence, removes all passion for becoming,
removes all ignorance, removes and abolishes all
conceit of "I am."
— SN 22.102
cappuccino wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 3:45 pm
The perceiving of impermanence, bhikkhus,
developed and frequently practiced, removes all
sensual passion, removes all passion for material
existence, removes all passion for becoming,
removes all ignorance, removes and abolishes all
conceit of "I am."
— SN 22.102
Ok, and...
SN 22.102 Bodhi wrote:...
“And how, bhikkhus, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it eliminates all sensual lust, eliminates all lust for existence, eliminates all ignorance, and uproots all conceit ‘I am’? ‘Such is form, such its origin, such its passing away; such is feeling … such is perception … such are volitional formations … such is consciousness, such its origin, such its passing away’: that is how the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it eliminates all sensual lust, eliminates all lust for existence, eliminates all ignorance, and uproots all conceit ‘I am.’”
It all comes down to see the arising and passing away of form, feeling, perception, formations, consciousness; the arising and passing away of the world; the arising and passing away of dukkha.
To realize anicca is to realize dependent origination/cessation of dukkha because, what else is there other than dukkha?
SN 5.10 Bodhi wrote:...
“It’s only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases.”
...
mjaviem wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 4:45 pm
the arising and passing away of dukkha.
The perceiving of impermanence … developed and frequently practiced
Yes, we will notice that feeling depends on contact. Whith contact there is feeling but when contact disappears feeling dissapears. That's what I think about a "place" or "thing" where to practise the perception of impermanence.
“And how, bhikkhus, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it eliminates all sensual lust, eliminates all lust for existence, eliminates all ignorance, and uproots all conceit ‘I am’? ‘Such is form, such its origin, such its passing away; such is feeling … such is perception … such are volitional formations … such is consciousness, such its origin, such its passing away’: that is how the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it eliminates all sensual lust, eliminates all lust for existence, eliminates all ignorance, and uproots all conceit ‘I am.’”
Anicca in comparison to what?
Verse 277: "All conditioned phenomena are impermanent"; when one sees this with Insight-wisdom, one becomes weary of dukkha (i.e., the khandhas). This is the Path to Purity.
Verse 278: "All conditioned phenomena are dukkha"; when one sees this with Insight-wisdom, one becomes weary of dukkha (i.e., the khandhas). This is the Path to Purity.
Verse 279: "All phenomena (dhammas) are without Self"; when one sees this with Insight-wisdom, one becomes weary of dukkha (i.e., the khandhas). This is the Path to Purity.
What is not burning?
"Bhikkhus, all is burning. And what is the all that is burning?
"The eye is burning, forms are burning, eye-consciousness is burning, eye-contact is burning, also whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with eye-contact for its indispensable condition, that too is burning. Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion. I say it is burning with birth, aging and death, with sorrows, with lamentations, with pains, with griefs, with despairs.
Bhikkhus, what do you think? Is (something) certain or uncertain?" — "Uncertain venerable sir." — "Is what is uncertain suffering or happiness?" — "Suffering, venerable sir." — "Is what is uncertain, suffering, and subject to change fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?" — "No, venerable sir."
To me it's more helpful to understand nicca/anicca certainty/uncertainty. This does not involve a wait such as in permanent/impermanent to confirm.
Consider what I believe people, whenever time is involved it only brings trouble and misunderstanding. The Buddha's Dhamma is about the present.
Perhaps a test of whether one is continuously in the present is whether one is aware that every present moment is different from every preceding moment. What I'm getting at is that there is no waiting for a change, just awareness of the continual change. When there is seeming persistence there is an indication that there is clinging and one is no longer in the present. When that happens one can let go (of what is clung to) and re-enter the present by being aware of the nature of the breath, which is a truth, which is always changing. Having re-entered the present one once more is aware of anicca.
The post I made above was made because I woke up in the morning and remembered (having once read) Ajahn Chah saying "Uncertain! Uncertain!" and I immeadiately thought "The old man is saying Anicca! anicca!". This word uncertain reflects better what I understand about anicca. I've read the text more than a year ago but just now makes more sense to me and it's more valuable.
Let me quote his words where he explains anicca is uncertainty (and I realize this only now or at least with real meaning only now. I think ven. Thanissaro speaks of uncertainty also if I don't remember wrongly).
The Collected Teachings of Ajahn Chah wrote:...
EVERYTHING IS UNCERTAIN
Insight can truly be said to have dawned when three qualities have been seen and known through direct experience. These are anicca, dukkha and anattā - impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and ‘not-self’. We recognize that everything is changing, nothing can be permanently satisfying or dependable, and nothing can truly be said to be ours, or absolutely who and what we are. Ajahn Chah stressed that the contemplation of anicca is the gateway to wisdom. As he puts it in the talk ‘Still, Flowing Water’; ‘Whoever sees the uncertainty of things sees the unchanging reality of them ... If you know anicca, uncertainty, you will let go of things and not grasp onto them.’
It is a characteristic of Ajahn Chah’s teaching that he used the less familiar rendition of ‘uncertainty’ (my naer in Thai) for anicca. While ‘impermanence’ can have a more abstract or technical tone to it, ‘uncertainty’ better describes the feeling in the heart when one is faced with that quality of change.
...
Last edited by mjaviem on Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
sunnat wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:57 am
... When there is seeming persistence there is an indication that there is clinging and one is no longer in the present...
Very nice. Ajahn Chah is a gem. Certainly uncertainty can be helpful on the way to the ultimate truth. I think if it makes sense to understand change as uncertainty then that can be good.
Change is always happening. There is no moment that is the same as any other moment. If uncertainty is a feeling and one experiences a moment of certainty, as uncertainty changes (as all feelings do), then where is anicca except as a process of change? Uncertainty is a personal relationship to change. From personal experience one may be certain that continuous equanimous awareness of change is liberating.
