IRS Audits and ordination

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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unassumingtable
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 22, 2022 4:05 pm

IRS Audits and ordination

Post by unassumingtable »

I know that, of course, one cannot become ordained if they have any outstanding debts. But what would happen if the debt was incurred AFTER taking ordination?

Say, if the IRS audited a monk who was a past business owner, and demanded additional payment that the monk did not possess. Would this require the monk to disrobe?
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: IRS Audits and ordination

Post by BKh »

Incurring a debt is not a disrobing offense. At least not in canonical Vinaya.

A much more common situation is simply that there is a mistake in personal taxes. I have seen this a few times in Canada. For some reason the Canadian govt will very freely give tax credits and then very freely claw them back. Any Canadian planning to ordain should look with high suspicion at any tax refunds they get in the two years prior to ordination and any credits they get while in robes.
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dharmacorps
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Re: IRS Audits and ordination

Post by dharmacorps »

Incurring debt after ordination would mean that the monk did something to get into debt after ordination (e.g. take a loan, do business, etc). That would be a vinaya problem.

If someone claims a debt ex-post-facto, then that would be different. I doubt the IRS would audit a closed business or a retired business owner unless there was something very hairy in the accounting. I had an IRS audit of a company I owned years ago and although I showed up to help the agent, I really didn't need to be there at all. They came, asked a few questions, spent a couple days going over some papers and staring at a computer, found nothing of any consequence and left. A waste of time and money was had by all including the US taxpayer. :tongue:
unassumingtable
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2022 4:05 pm

Re: IRS Audits and ordination

Post by unassumingtable »

dharmacorps wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:27 pm Incurring debt after ordination would mean that the monk did something to get into debt after ordination (e.g. take a loan, do business, etc). That would be a vinaya problem.

If someone claims a debt ex-post-facto, then that would be different. I doubt the IRS would audit a closed business or a retired business owner unless there was something very hairy in the accounting. I had an IRS audit of a company I owned years ago and although I showed up to help the agent, I really didn't need to be there at all. They came, asked a few questions, spent a couple days going over some papers and staring at a computer, found nothing of any consequence and left. A waste of time and money was had by all including the US taxpayer. :tongue:
It's pretty unlikely, but not impossible, which is why I want to prepare as best I can.

I plan on disconnecting completely from the internet/outside world once I am ordained, so it'd be pretty awkward if after 5-6 years in robes I found out that the IRS had audited me, and the debt had been racking up interest over the years.

I'm not sure if they would accept the fact that I am a bhikkhu with no assets or income as a valid excuse for forgiving the debt.
DiamondNgXZ
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 am

Re: IRS Audits and ordination

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

unassumingtable wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:36 am
dharmacorps wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:27 pm Incurring debt after ordination would mean that the monk did something to get into debt after ordination (e.g. take a loan, do business, etc). That would be a vinaya problem.

If someone claims a debt ex-post-facto, then that would be different. I doubt the IRS would audit a closed business or a retired business owner unless there was something very hairy in the accounting. I had an IRS audit of a company I owned years ago and although I showed up to help the agent, I really didn't need to be there at all. They came, asked a few questions, spent a couple days going over some papers and staring at a computer, found nothing of any consequence and left. A waste of time and money was had by all including the US taxpayer. :tongue:
It's pretty unlikely, but not impossible, which is why I want to prepare as best I can.

I plan on disconnecting completely from the internet/outside world once I am ordained, so it'd be pretty awkward if after 5-6 years in robes I found out that the IRS had audited me, and the debt had been racking up interest over the years.

I'm not sure if they would accept the fact that I am a bhikkhu with no assets or income as a valid excuse for forgiving the debt.
1. Can tell your government some how that you're going to be ordained? Yes, just tell them no money to pay, that's the first resort.

2. The monastery can pay or the kapiya holding the Sangha Dayaka Fund.

3. It might be ok to check emails from time to time. Just like a few minutes of limited internet per week.
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: IRS Audits and ordination

Post by BKh »

unassumingtable wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:36 am It's pretty unlikely, but not impossible, which is why I want to prepare as best I can.
Take a look at this article https://www.americanbar.org/groups/busi ... 8/06_wood/

IANAL, but it appears that if you did nothing criminal in your filings and your assets are not complicated, then it seems you have nothing to worry about. Basically 3 years. If you need peace of mind, it shouldn't cost too much to have an accountant look over your last three years.
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dharmacorps
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Re: IRS Audits and ordination

Post by dharmacorps »

unassumingtable wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:36 am

It's pretty unlikely, but not impossible, which is why I want to prepare as best I can.

I plan on disconnecting completely from the internet/outside world once I am ordained, so it'd be pretty awkward if after 5-6 years in robes I found out that the IRS had audited me, and the debt had been racking up interest over the years.

I'm not sure if they would accept the fact that I am a bhikkhu with no assets or income as a valid excuse for forgiving the debt.
Unless you have a history of financial indiscretion/fraud/avoiding taxation or involvement in "creative accounting" on the part of your financial people, this is probably so unlikely (especially 5-6 years out) that it is not worth fretting over especially when you haven't ordained yet.
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