classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
tamdrin
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by tamdrin »

Sorry for the off topic post but why have I been getting many advertisements on facebook to donate to help build Muslim temples in America? I thought facebook's ad optimization was more tuned in :offtopic:
Ontheway
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Ontheway »

tamdrin wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:53 am Sorry for the off topic post but why have I been getting many advertisements on facebook to donate to help build Muslim temples in America? I thought facebook's ad optimization was more tuned in :offtopic:
I got a lot of ads on YouTube to donate money for Muslim countries.

Which brings me to think....what about the needy ones in our own areas or country...
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Tutareture wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:37 am Honestely,outside of ignorance among ordinary muslims ,I think the Salafis are a huge threat to the world and buddhist-muslim relations because of their whack interpretation of fiqh and shari'ah.and not to mention their strange conception of the absolute(being mujassimah or ascribing a body to the God,and literal interpretations of God's attributes contrary to the Salaf(May Allah be pleased with all of them) they 'claim'to follow)

this is why I think Habib ali Jifri al Yemeni and his institute is so fundemental in the world and islamic world today,as sufism/classical sunni islam is nonviolent(even against animals,you cannot kill a animal unless necassery and a unjustly killed animal will testify against the muslim on the day of judgement according to the prophet),promotes Ihsaan(good kind behaviour),i'lm(knowledge),A'ql(rational thinking)and also respects diversity of opinion.

Salafism,wich was created by the British and the freemasons,has stained islam and is actually even more of a threat to other muslims because of their Takfiri policies.

the Ironic thing,is that Ibn Taymiyah(the precursor to ibn abdul wahhab) was a Sufi.He did great miracles,had Kashf(supernatural knowledge from Allah of the future,being able to see hell and paradise,people in the grave and talk to them etc)wich Salafis deny the Muslim Saints can have and even wore Taweez/Ta'weedh for protection(Ta'weedh is an islamic amulet/talisman) and had Siddhis.

I have seen how saudi funded theological institutes have ruined Yemen,wich is traditionally Sufi with a shafi'i Fiqh,and is behind the violent destruction of that beautiful country and people.

truly Puritan islam,is actually Sufism and classical sunni islam.
Your takes on classic sunni Islam which you say is nonviolent and suffism are interesting.

However as others have said, why remain with Islam when the Dhamma is clearly a supreme path in very respect? Is it out of fear of other Muslims? Muhammad made an instruction that those who leave Islam (so called apostasy) are to be killed and some try to enforce this today or at least ostracize ex-muslims. This instruction is itself a sign of the falsehood of Muhammad as a spiritual guide at the heart of Islam.

Muhammadism, if practiced non violently and not following Muhammads life example (since he killed humans and animals) can at best lead only to a sense sphere heavenly rebirth for a time. However I understand that one is familiar with ones traditions and that it is easier to begin with, to remain with them. Your heart however will incline to the truth eventually.


The knowledge of the worlds and the heavens is supreme in the Dhamma of the Buddha.
The knowledge of the supernormal powers.
The practice of virtue in body, speech and mind.
The way to the realization of the stages of meditative attainments (states of sanctity).
The knowledge of liberation and realization of the Deathless dimension.

All are supreme and unsurpassed in the Dhamma of the Awakened One.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Tutareture
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Tutareture »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:05 am
Tutareture wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:37 am Honestely,outside of ignorance among ordinary muslims ,I think the Salafis are a huge threat to the world and buddhist-muslim relations because of their whack interpretation of fiqh and shari'ah.and not to mention their strange conception of the absolute(being mujassimah or ascribing a body to the God,and literal interpretations of God's attributes contrary to the Salaf(May Allah be pleased with all of them) they 'claim'to follow)

this is why I think Habib ali Jifri al Yemeni and his institute is so fundemental in the world and islamic world today,as sufism/classical sunni islam is nonviolent(even against animals,you cannot kill a animal unless necassery and a unjustly killed animal will testify against the muslim on the day of judgement according to the prophet),promotes Ihsaan(good kind behaviour),i'lm(knowledge),A'ql(rational thinking)and also respects diversity of opinion.

Salafism,wich was created by the British and the freemasons,has stained islam and is actually even more of a threat to other muslims because of their Takfiri policies.

the Ironic thing,is that Ibn Taymiyah(the precursor to ibn abdul wahhab) was a Sufi.He did great miracles,had Kashf(supernatural knowledge from Allah of the future,being able to see hell and paradise,people in the grave and talk to them etc)wich Salafis deny the Muslim Saints can have and even wore Taweez/Ta'weedh for protection(Ta'weedh is an islamic amulet/talisman) and had Siddhis.

I have seen how saudi funded theological institutes have ruined Yemen,wich is traditionally Sufi with a shafi'i Fiqh,and is behind the violent destruction of that beautiful country and people.

truly Puritan islam,is actually Sufism and classical sunni islam.
Your takes on classic sunni Islam which you say is nonviolent and suffism are interesting.

However as others have said, why remain with Islam when the Dhamma is clearly a supreme path in very respect? Is it out of fear of other Muslims? Muhammad made an instruction that those who leave Islam (so called apostasy) are to be killed and some try to enforce this today or at least ostracize ex-muslims. This instruction is itself a sign of the falsehood of Muhammad as a spiritual guide at the heart of Islam.

Muhammadism, if practiced non violently and not following Muhammads life example (since he killed humans and animals) can at best lead only to a sense sphere heavenly rebirth for a time. However I understand that one is familiar with ones traditions and that it is easier to begin with, to remain with them. Your heart however will incline to the truth eventually.


The knowledge of the worlds and the heavens is supreme in the Dhamma of the Buddha.
The knowledge of the supernormal powers.
The practice of virtue in body, speech and mind.
The way to the realization of the stages of meditative attainments (states of sanctity).
The knowledge of liberation and realization of the Deathless dimension.

All are supreme and unsurpassed in the Dhamma of the Awakened One.
I'm looking my dear.

I need solid answers,to make the plunge.
אַל-תְּהִי צַדִּיק הַרְבֵּה, וְאַל-תִּתְחַכַּם יוֹתֵר: לָמָּה, תִּשּׁוֹמֵם. Be not righteous overmuch; neither make thyself overwise; why shouldest thou destroy thyself? -Ecclesiastes 7:16
Sha Bac
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Sha Bac »

If I may...

The religion that one grows up on can be deeply ingrained into the psychological, emotional, philosophical aspects of a person. This may sound far fetched, but i think in some way it may be embedded into the nervous system somehow. Not sure if that makes sense.

I was raised Christian and had the "born again" holy spirit experience. I was in love with the experience. It took YEARS to find buddhism. About 10 years. The issue isn't just seeking the truth, but not being attached to or in love with certain ideas. It took years of studying philosophy to leave christianity, become agnostic, turn into a selfish jerk, find spiritual experiences again, go back to christianity, have kundalini awaken, realize christianity isn't quite right, find meditation, become Buddhist, and synchronize what was left. IT IS IN THE BLOOD. That is, our biases and programming. Ultimately, a person had to want the TRUTH, for the sake of being in accordance with it. There's rumination, obsession, crying. It's very anti-egotistical.

Now, about the different options. Unless you see devas and remember previous lives or have powers, what good is it to realize Buddha made those claims? Until you've experienced it for yourself, those things are just beliefs.

But as far as morality is concerned, buddhism is the safest bet. It is compassionate and non violent. So, what if you're wrong? Well as far as behavior goes, you're pretty safe with buddhism. There are Christians who kill animals, harm the environment, reserve compassion and only accept those who conform to their doctrinal beliefs. There are Muslims who believe in killing infidels. Christians did that too, of course.

Interestingly, a person can believe in Jesus and receive the holy spirit, thus being saved in that religion. Then practice buddhism.

I must say, at the end of the day, there are two "gods": one is a concept worshiped in the head. The other is what's Unconditioned. When you develop the insight to realize the former is a head game, you can cultivate experience of the Unconditioned. Lay down the burden of the concept. It's funny how worshiping God is supposed to be a surrender, a broken yoke, a "laying down" of the burden, but that's not it for theists at all! They have more burden and baggage than anybody else, carrying around this conceptual baggage and "believing" it all the time, with virtually no evidence whatsoever. And then they behave in ways that could accrue negative karma. It's insane.

When you truly lay down the burden, you can experience what can be appropriately called the "Divine".
Ontheway
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Ontheway »

Hindus also claimed Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu. Baha'i faith also claimed Buddha as one aspect of their God. Folklore Taoism also claimed "Buddha" as one in their pantheon system.

When something is too excellent, everyone wants to claim it. So, it is the same as Sunni claimed Buddha as prophet.

It is just a "claim" game with no value at all.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Eko Care
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Eko Care »

Ontheway wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:15 pm Hindus also claimed Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu. Baha'i faith also claimed Buddha as one aspect of their God. Folklore Taoism also claimed "Buddha" as one in their pantheon system.

When something is too excellent, everyone wants to claim it. So, it is the same as Sunni claimed Buddha as prophet.

It is just a "claim" game with no value at all.
But Buddhists never claim Vishnu/God/Tao/Prophet as part of their system. :smile:
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Mumfie
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Mumfie »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:28 pm But Buddhists never claim Vishnu/God/Tao/Prophet as part of their system. :smile:
In the case of Vishnu it seems to have been something of a two-way street, with Buddhists co-opting the Hindu deity no less than the Vaishnavites co-opted the Buddha. For some examples see the "Beyond Hinduism" section of the Wiki entry for Vishnu.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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Eko Care
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Eko Care »

Mumfie wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:03 am In the case of Vishnu it seems to have been something of a two-way street, with Buddhists co-opting the Hindu deity no less than the Vaishnavites co-opted the Buddha. For some examples see the "Beyond Hinduism" section of the Wiki entry for Vishnu.
I know such Buddhists who occasionally/yearly worship few Hindu and Sri Lankan gods but they are either not unlearned Buddhists or doing it expecting material benefits from gods. Early days some have considered Vishnu as one of the deva mentioned in Sri Lankan chronicles.

In the community of learned or practising Buddhists, there is no concern about any Hindu god and sometimes they even consider the above people as Miccha-diithikas even. Some pioneer Buddhist monks of last century openly preached against such practices.

Either way Genuine Buddhist texts/philosophy (Tipitaka + commentaries + sub commentaries) has not co-opted Hindu deities.
TRobinson465
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by TRobinson465 »

Buddhism was probably well known by the time of Muhammed so i dont think its too far fetched the Quran may have a reference to him as being an old prophet of Islam or something like that. Its kinda a misconception that muslims only believe in Muhammed, they even believe jesus was a prophet of islam, so if a muslim prays to jesus that would still be in line with islam.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Ontheway
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Re: classical sunni islam sees buddha as a prophet and buddhists as' saved '

Post by Ontheway »

Eko Care wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:30 pm
Mumfie wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:03 am In the case of Vishnu it seems to have been something of a two-way street, with Buddhists co-opting the Hindu deity no less than the Vaishnavites co-opted the Buddha. For some examples see the "Beyond Hinduism" section of the Wiki entry for Vishnu.
I know such Buddhists who occasionally/yearly worship few Hindu and Sri Lankan gods but they are either not unlearned Buddhists or doing it expecting material benefits from gods. Early days some have considered Vishnu as one of the deva mentioned in Sri Lankan chronicles.

In the community of learned or practising Buddhists, there is no concern about any Hindu god and sometimes they even consider the above people as Miccha-diithikas even. Some pioneer Buddhist monks of last century openly preached against such practices.

Either way Genuine Buddhist texts/philosophy (Tipitaka + commentaries + sub commentaries) has not co-opted Hindu deities.
I think they are many shared the same names but necessarily different characters.

Like Indra, Lord of Devas....in Hinduism, he was a crybaby and always up to no good with women. But in Buddhist tradition, Sakka (also carried the name Inda) the King of Devas, He is brave, matured, dutiful and virtuous.

In Hinduism, only one Brahma. But in Buddhist tradition, there are many Brahmas.

In Hinduism, Asuras are treated as demonic beings. But in Buddhist tradition, Asuras are former gods of Tavatimsa Heaven and capable of goodness (eg: Paharada Asurinda).

There is only one Garuda in Hinduism. But in Buddhist tradition, there are many garudas.

I think Visnu (Venhu?) could be just a minor deity in the times of Buddha (Venhu Devaputta? Mentioned in both Venhu sutta and Mahasamaya sutta).

But one thing is clear, these Puranas are later development and the creation of Visnu as Almighty God story is just a fabrication of ancient Hindu believers. Even in the Vedas, Indra seems to have bigger role than Siva and Visnu.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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