the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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NotMe
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by NotMe »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:36 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:35 pm So YouTube is your awareness?
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It is all Dhamma! We agree again, Cappy!

:toast:
SteRo
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by SteRo »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:36 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:35 pm So YouTube is your awareness?
Part of
I would not declare an arena of ignorants as "part of" my awareness.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by cappuccino »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:40 pm I would not declare an arena of ignorants as "part of" my awareness.
Black, white, grey
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NotMe
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by NotMe »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:40 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:36 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:35 pm So YouTube is your awareness?
Part of
I would not declare an arena of ignorants as "part of" my awareness.


Well there goes 99% of the world.

Edit to add: that’s what makes the scientific method excel. It constantly removes ignorance and replaces it with real science. It is a never ending tale of we didn’t know this but and it may conflict with previous understandings.
Last edited by NotMe on Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by NotMe »

We make a great tag team Cappy you go guy!
thepea
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by thepea »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:07 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:19 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:33 pm
No. You are once again committing an etymological fallacy. This is a fact. Your fact is a non-fact, i.e. a fantasy. I feel no need to entertain your fantasies.
I’m not forcing you to.
I’m simply saying according to definition, meat is food to sustain life.
Thus vegans and vegetarians eat meat
What you are is "simply" wrong, for the reasons argued above. It doesn't matter whether you feel like I feel like you're "forcing me to" or not.
I think the Bible (not a reliable dictionary but still) says “I give you every seed bearing herb and fruit of the field for your meat.”
This would take the origin back 2000+ yrs.
Oxford dictionary confirms this also.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by thepea »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:22 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:11 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:58 pm

The majority of people would.
That's the wisdom of the majority which some call "common sense". :sage:
Common sense can have you believe the world is flat.
Those in the know, know it’s a cube.
We are borg.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Coëmgenu »

The King James Bible is not in contemporary English. It is in what is called "Jacobean English." If it even says that, you are still using an antiquarian definition and it is still an etymological fallacy to suggest that "meat" simply means "food" in modern English.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
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Coëmgenu
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Coëmgenu »

I can't even find that translation. Did you go looking for something as obscure as the Douay–Rheims? That's in even older English.

You seem to be paraphrasing Genesis 1:29.

Edit: It is the Douay–Rheims.

Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat

This English is from the 1500s.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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NotMe
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by NotMe »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:18 pm I can't even find that translation. Did you go looking for something as obscure as the Douay–Rheims? That's in even older English.

You seem to be paraphrasing Genesis 1:29.

Edit: It is the Douay–Rheims.

Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat

This English is from the 1500s.
I am looking thru Youngs Literal ...

says food
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by thepea »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:18 pm I can't even find that translation. Did you go looking for something as obscure as the Douay–Rheims? That's in even older English.

You seem to be paraphrasing Genesis 1:29.

Edit: It is the Douay–Rheims.

Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat

This English is from the 1500s.
Buddha dhamma we are told is 2500 yrs old. What is the issue? I continually speak to you all of language corruption.
Formal language is hidden and society is being turned in ignorant commoners speaking slangs to one another in confusion.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Coëmgenu »

NotMe wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:12 pmI am looking thru Youngs Literal ...

says food
Look at it this way: you speak modern contemporary English.

If I invited you to a BBQ and said that I was grilling "meat," and when you got there you saw that I only had asparagi on the grill, you wouldn't have assumed that by "meat" I meant "plants." Using "meat" for "any food" is archaic English.

Even Google's dictionary notes that the usage is "archaic."
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Spiny Norman »

thepea wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:20 pm If it’s the mothers choice to a procedure, then this is very much like the buddhists who choose to eat animal flesh but choose to have others do the killing for them.
Yes, these seem like similar situations to me.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:44 pm
thepea wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:20 pm If it’s the mothers choice to a procedure, then this is very much like the buddhists who choose to eat animal flesh but choose to have others do the killing for them.
Apparently, the mother would still bear some responsibility, according to buddhism:

Five factors are necessary to fulfil the offence of killing living beings (pāṇātipāta).
1. It is a living being.
2. One must know that it is a living being.
3. There must be the intention to kill.
4. A verbal or physical effort must be made to kill that being.
5. The living being must die due to that effort.
http://www.aimwell.org/problems.html
Notice #4 above, a verbal or physical effort must be made, which a pregnant woman does, when she gives the okay to the doctor to do the procedure. Therefore, even if not done by your hand, but by an order, then there is still kammic responsibility for the killing.
So a Buddhist cant buy the live lobsters the guy is selling directly from his boat. But he can buy them cooked in the store an hour later.
Correct?
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:11 pm
thepea wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:58 pm What sutta is this?
See the link, from the Vinaya and Commentaries.
I see it says the Buddha allowed monks to eat fish meat and eggs provided they had not heard it was killed for them.
Condone seem the question today with this.
So these monastics in buddhas time were travelling with the beggars bowl perhaps unannounced and hold out a bowl and you get what you get, eat yum, burp, go jhana.

But now we have villagers bringing the food directly to the monks and nuns, and they bring these items specifically prepared for them.

Is this not condoning the killing?
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