First precept

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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NotMe
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Re: First precept

Post by NotMe »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:02 pm ...
Then your employer says the blacks must sit in the back of the bus.
And your chest restricts at this thought, then you pick up passengers and they are upset at segregation as they want to sit with their white friends.
Do you have to simply accept this new policy or quit your career?
Your employer does not own your career. It owns your current job in your career. Switch bosses and continue on your career. Shirley that job is not the only horse in the rat race. Be brave and explore the new frontier around you. It changes ya know.

Metta

:anjali:
Joe.c
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:02 pm What if you follow the rules.
Purchase education.
Purchase licences to do certain things.
Accept employment with contract
Life is going swimmingly as you are able to function in society and maintain your morals.
You are happy driving your bus.
Then your employer says the blacks must sit in the back of the bus.
And your chest restricts at this thought, then you pick up passengers and they are upset at segregation as they want to sit with their white friends.
Do you have to simply accept this new policy or quit your career?
Well it is up to you, whatever you want to do with worldly things. If you don’t like it, you can find another job or lifestyle that you are happy.

If you don’t like the country, you can move to another country that fit you better.

If you don’t like the company’s policy, then find one that you like.

Why suffer? Is there anyone tying you with the rope/chain to the job?

In USA, employment is At Will, so one is free to move on at any time as long as 2 weeks notice is given (Win-Win situation).

Or One can be happy with whatever happen in the world, just by sitting peacefully and observe the experience only. (Completely detached from the world, the body just needs food only) :smile:
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
bpallister
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Re: First precept

Post by bpallister »

If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
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NotMe
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Re: First precept

Post by NotMe »

bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
Non debatable - no <grin>
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Sam Vara
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Re: First precept

Post by Sam Vara »

bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
No. The first precept prohibits killing. You can eat meat and not kill anything. Buying meat killed by someone else breaks no precept.
Ontheway
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Re: First precept

Post by Ontheway »

Eating meat doesn't violate first Precept. It is just like buying dead corpse to ingest.

That animal will still be dead even you don't buy it.

But if we argued "if we eat meat, that would indirectly support the killing", that would be a weak argument. Since nowadays people still kill (pesticide?) or harm animals (destroy their natural habitats) to get vegetables on your dining table.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

Joe.c wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:21 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:02 pm What if you follow the rules.
Purchase education.
Purchase licences to do certain things.
Accept employment with contract
Life is going swimmingly as you are able to function in society and maintain your morals.
You are happy driving your bus.
Then your employer says the blacks must sit in the back of the bus.
And your chest restricts at this thought, then you pick up passengers and they are upset at segregation as they want to sit with their white friends.
Do you have to simply accept this new policy or quit your career?
Well it is up to you, whatever you want to do with worldly things. If you don’t like it, you can find another job or lifestyle that you are happy.

If you don’t like the country, you can move to another country that fit you better.

If you don’t like the company’s policy, then find one that you like.

Why suffer? Is there anyone tying you with the rope/chain to the job?

In USA, employment is At Will, so one is free to move on at any time as long as 2 weeks notice is given (Win-Win situation).

Or One can be happy with whatever happen in the world, just by sitting peacefully and observe the experience only. (Completely detached from the world, the body just needs food only) :smile:
It is illegal to be homeless(residence).
If you sat on a park bench you will be arrested in time.
If you fail to identify, you will be charged with obstruction of a peace officer in their duty.
Then you get tortured.
So if you are an arahant you can do this but trust me I tried this and jail these days is isolation for health and safety.
It is literal torture.
Otherwise we have some steps to take and if we are layfolk this required working in society.
bpallister
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Re: First precept

Post by bpallister »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:33 pm
bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
No. The first precept prohibits killing. You can eat meat and not kill anything. Buying meat killed by someone else breaks no precept.
why is someone else killing it ok? that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: First precept

Post by Ceisiwr »

bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:23 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:33 pm
bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
No. The first precept prohibits killing. You can eat meat and not kill anything. Buying meat killed by someone else breaks no precept.
why is someone else killing it ok? that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
It's not that it's "ok", but rather you have not engaged in unwholesome kamma yourself by killing the animal. If you get the other person to kill the animal for you, then that is unwholesome. If someone is buying meat from a supermarket, or eating some meat that a friend has cooked for a meal, they aren't intentionally killing anything. Nor are they asking someone to kill a being for them. The being is already dead.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
bpallister
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Re: First precept

Post by bpallister »

is there any way to avoid bad kamma in today's world?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: First precept

Post by Ceisiwr »

bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:27 pm is there any way to avoid bad kamma in today's world?
Of course. The 5 precepts are the best place to start. The 8 are even better. Being a monk or nun though is obviously the best way.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Joe.c
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Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:17 pm It is illegal to be homeless(residence).
If you sat on a park bench you will be arrested in time.
If you fail to identify, you will be charged with obstruction of a peace officer in their duty.
Then you get tortured.
So if you are an arahant you can do this but trust me I tried this and jail these days is isolation for health and safety.
It is literal torture.
Otherwise we have some steps to take and if we are layfolk this required working in society.
Where did I ask you to become homeless? Even Buddha never ask someone to become homeless.

If you still attach to worldly thing/family life, then find something that make you happy. But keep remember to hear true dhamma and practice 5 precepts.

Don't complain without any action, life will be miserable without any action to correct. Miserable life is like living in lower realm. If you condition it like lower realm life, then future life will be miserable as well (if there is any).

Find something that make you happy to do or enjoy to do here and now but still meet the 5 precepts.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
Destroy: put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.
Existence: the fact or state of living or having objective reality.
Living:alive

So if rebirth is part of the dhamma teachings. And we cycle through samsara until we become arahants, you really are not destroying by killing as this being will recycle back into samsara.

It’s just these things, hunting/gathering require thought and this stirs the mind. So it’s better if jhana is ones objective to observe not doing these activities.
A monastic should be working towards the final goal and not wasting time with other things.
Laymen must work.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:23 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:33 pm
bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
No. The first precept prohibits killing. You can eat meat and not kill anything. Buying meat killed by someone else breaks no precept.
why is someone else killing it ok? that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Correct, it’s the thoughts of sin(fear) that produce the chiseled kamma. The vegan guilt ridden over the bloodied carcasses doesn’t comprehend the dhamma, and creates heavily engrained kamma.

Eat, hunt, gather, enjoy the bounty and develop gratitude for your daily foods. It’s all recycled anyway. The thoughts of sin(greed/fear) are the trouble.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:33 pm
bpallister wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:27 pm If you are not vegan, are you breaking the first precept?
No. The first precept prohibits killing. You can eat meat and not kill anything. Buying meat killed by someone else breaks no precept.
It’s destroy not kill.
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