It ain't what you do, it's how you do it.
See first of 5 methods in MN 20, how to stop bad thoughts.
If a mantra 'Buddho' is used to drive out akusala thoughts by replacing it with a kusala one, then it's perfectly in line with MN 20 and EBT.
Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
www.audtip.org/audtip: Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
- religionista
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Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
The Myanmar Digital News tells us: "Making prayer beads from fruits of rattan trees is a traditional domestic business for the folk people in the Village of Zayitchaung in Thaton Township, Mon State."
So the mala and presumably also the attached mantra practice must have been present in Mon State for some time. The fact that the mala has 108 beads suggests an Indian origin for both the mala and probably also the mantra practice.
I'm speculating that at some time in the past, an Indian mantra tradition was taken up by Buddhist monks in Mon State. Possibly then or possibly at a later date, the recitation of the word "buddho" became conflated with the practice of Buddhānusati as described in the Visuddhimagga.
All speculative, I agree, but the textual evidence one way or another may have been lost forever or may never have existed in the first place.
So the mala and presumably also the attached mantra practice must have been present in Mon State for some time. The fact that the mala has 108 beads suggests an Indian origin for both the mala and probably also the mantra practice.
I'm speculating that at some time in the past, an Indian mantra tradition was taken up by Buddhist monks in Mon State. Possibly then or possibly at a later date, the recitation of the word "buddho" became conflated with the practice of Buddhānusati as described in the Visuddhimagga.
All speculative, I agree, but the textual evidence one way or another may have been lost forever or may never have existed in the first place.
- religionista
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Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
If anyone has access to the National Library of Australia, I found this work by Somdet Phra Vanarat Buddhasiri (1806-1891) in their catalogue. It might explain the teachings of Somdet Phra Vanarat Buddhasiri on meditation, which may or may not include the "buddho" mantra practice.
Insight meditation / by Somdet Phra Vanarat (Buddhasiri) ; English version by Ven. Phra Srivisuddhikavī
Bib ID 6185507
Format Book
Author Somdet Phra Vanarat
Description Bangkok : Mahamakut Buddhist University, 1981 68 p. ; 19 cm.
Subjects Buddhist meditations. | Meditation.
Insight meditation / by Somdet Phra Vanarat (Buddhasiri) ; English version by Ven. Phra Srivisuddhikavī
Bib ID 6185507
Format Book
Author Somdet Phra Vanarat
Description Bangkok : Mahamakut Buddhist University, 1981 68 p. ; 19 cm.
Subjects Buddhist meditations. | Meditation.
- religionista
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Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
In Myanmar there is a tradition of spoken "buddho" recitation with a mala. From the buddho website:
"Within the Buddhist meditative tradition in Myanmar, in addition to the popular vipassanā movement of the past 100 years, there has traditionally been a group focusing on developing concentration (samādhi). One of the objects used for developing samādhi is the sound of the word buddho. In other Theravāda Buddhist countries, such as Thailand, buddho is usually recited mentally, in silence or linked to breathing. During meditation on the sound of buddho, we use a mālā as an aid to the development of deep concentration."
"Within the Buddhist meditative tradition in Myanmar, in addition to the popular vipassanā movement of the past 100 years, there has traditionally been a group focusing on developing concentration (samādhi). One of the objects used for developing samādhi is the sound of the word buddho. In other Theravāda Buddhist countries, such as Thailand, buddho is usually recited mentally, in silence or linked to breathing. During meditation on the sound of buddho, we use a mālā as an aid to the development of deep concentration."
Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
I heard venerable Yuttadhammo say that using mantras to try and evoke a state of mind can be dangerous and has even led some meditators to go crazy. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the "bhuddo" mantra is used as a means to evoke mindfulness or minimize distracting thoughts? I am weary to use it myself as I prefer to use the "noting " mantra so as to be aware of what is happening in the present. It seems problematic to try and force the mind or "shut out" distracting thoughts, rather than just sit with them and witness.
But I could be misunderstanding what the bhuddo mantra is actually used for.
But I could be misunderstanding what the bhuddo mantra is actually used for.
Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
It's a tool, one can say Coca Cola to make it equally effective.
Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
The Bud-(breath in) dho-(breath out) mantra practice is neither traceable in Pali Tipitaka canon nor in Visuddhimagga.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
I dont think there is much scriptural evidence of any of the existing meditation techniques except anapanasati as taught by modern Buddhist groups. At least not in the sense that the suttas say the Buddha said, do this or do that. the Buddho mantra itself does seem to be a recollection of the Buddha technique as described in the visuddhimagga tho, even tho it doesnt mention the mantra specifically. Again i think this is pretty much the case with any meditation technique in existence except maybe some modern suttanta techniques modern ppl started doing based on the anapanasati sutta or something.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Re: Doctrinal source of 'Buddho' meditation of the Thai Forest tradition
Interesting. Using "buddho" as a mantra to develop samadhi sounds different to using it as a support for breath meditation?religionista wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:41 pm In Myanmar there is a tradition of spoken "buddho" recitation with a mala. From the buddho website:
"Within the Buddhist meditative tradition in Myanmar, in addition to the popular vipassanā movement of the past 100 years, there has traditionally been a group focusing on developing concentration (samādhi). One of the objects used for developing samādhi is the sound of the word buddho. In other Theravāda Buddhist countries, such as Thailand, buddho is usually recited mentally, in silence or linked to breathing. During meditation on the sound of buddho, we use a mālā as an aid to the development of deep concentration."
Though I suppose any 2-syllable mantra would naturally "attach itself" to the breath with repetition.
Buddha save me from new-agers!