What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Do you support abortion

1. Yes
8
20%
2. No
33
80%
 
Total votes: 41

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DNS
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:58 pm What sutta is this?
See the link, from the Vinaya and Commentaries.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by thepea »

Sam Vara wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:39 pm
thepea wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:20 pm
DNS wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:11 pm

See the link, from the Vinaya and Commentaries.
I see it says the Buddha allowed monks to eat fish meat and eggs provided they had not heard it was killed for them.
Condone seem the question today with this.
So these monastics in buddhas time were travelling with the beggars bowl perhaps unannounced and hold out a bowl and you get what you get, eat yum, burp, go jhana.

But now we have villagers bringing the food directly to the monks and nuns, and they bring these items specifically prepared for them.

Is this not condoning the killing?
No. To condone the killing, one would have to know that the creature had been killed for oneself, and consent to that by accepting it. If the monk is given meat, and does not know or suspect that the killing was done for them, then they are just given meat.
Seems a bit hippy dippy if you ask me, like a legal technicality. It doesn’t make sense in a kamma (guilt free way). A court says it’s legal for you to abort a fetus, even 7 days after born in some places but this doesn’t give momma a clear conscience. And counter it could be illegal to abort and a momma could do it herself with absolute conviction and not be affected karmicly one bit.
Just like the suiciders in the suttas who get away with it.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by seeker242 »

Coëmgenu wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:43 am The tricky thing is, from a traditional Buddhist POV, there is no such moment when the embryo/foetus is utterly insentient.
That is as I have learned also. A "sentient being" has been sentient for uncountable previous aeons, uncountable previous deaths and births and there has never been a time during which when that being was not sentient. This would certainly make any intentional abortion against the precepts regardless of when.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by DNS »

I moved some of the posts that were a better fit for the great vegetarian debate, over to that thread.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Bundokji »

I do not understand the Buddha's teachings as a set of fixed views, but rather as prioritizing actions that leads to long term well being over immediate satisfaction of desire. If we think about the five offenses that the precepts seek to prevent, they all come with the implicit promise of immediate relief, and that includes killing. The availability of abortion as a legal choice makes the ramifications of the offense look less serious, and therefore the acts leading to them more seductive.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by bpallister »

I answered yes, but for case of incest and rape. I generally don't support it otherwise, but it's a complex issue.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by cappuccino »

no_mind_redux wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:48 pm What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Choices, consequences
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by justindesilva »

Bundokji wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:01 pm I do not understand the Buddha's teachings as a set of fixed views, but rather as prioritizing actions that leads to long term well being over immediate satisfaction of desire. If we think about the five offenses that the precepts seek to prevent, they all come with the implicit promise of immediate relief, and that includes killing. The availability of abortion as a legal choice makes the ramifications of the offense look less serious, and therefore the acts leading to them more seductive.
The first of pancasila is "panathipatha veramani sikkapadam samadiyami". to state that I abstain from taking or harming life . Utpatthi or being conceived is a matter of getting together of a sperm and an egg along with a third party as a vingnana to form a satva.
Hence nobody can destroy such a.birth for whatever reason whether legal or not. The consequences of destroying such a fertulization is to be borne by the person responsible for such intention .
Kamma vipaka for such intentions are well explained elsewhere .
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by thepea »

no_mind_redux wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:48 pm (According to you) What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Of course you can have only one view (yes/no and reason for your views) and not occupy middle of the road (e.g. I am in favor of abortion at 15 weeks but not 20).

Please - No arguments. No reference to any political party. No reference to any part of the political spectrum.

Of course you are allowed to have an opinion about when life begins according to you, science and philosophy.

Please write what you think as a Buddhist not as a supporter of X or Y political party.

:namaste:

No_Mind
Abortion is practiced by the medical profession.
It is the Doctor who takes this action to perform abortion(In 99.999% of cases).
If Buddhists support the medical profession then they support abortion.
I’m not Buddhist so I can’t answer your question but as an insight practitioner It is my comprehension that the precept involving avoiding sexual misconduct, is the conveyance of bodily autonomy or my body my choice.
In the spirit of this it is not my responsibility to prevent any woman from seeking an abortion, but if medical industry or others stopped providing this service abortion would be a non issue.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Don't be afraid to support saving unborn babies lives.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by befriend »

Abortion<adoption "those born and to be born May all beings be at ease" karaniya metta sutta
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by form »

A new life comes from name and form. Form is artificially destroyed and name need to go else where. This is killing. Killing is no good because it disrupted the flow of nature.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Dhamma Chameleon »

thepea wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:29 am In the spirit of this it is not my responsibility to prevent any woman from seeking an abortion, but if medical industry or others stopped providing this service abortion would be a non issue.
Yes, if you consider back-street abortions and more death and disease a non-issue.
The legal situation of abortion in a country does not influence the abortion rate, but illegality is associated with a much greater risk of complications and death.
(emphasis mine) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9253669/

I am anti-killing yet believe abortion must be made safely possible, even though I'd rather people didn't resort to it. You can acknowledge something must be made available without agreeing or condoning it, because you see that the alternative is worse. That in line with the dhamma. It is the pragmatic, compassionate and harm-reducing way.

It's much easier to feel comfortable in a black-and-white certainty (when you see the results of it as a non-issue) than it is to weigh up what will actually lead to the least suffering and harmful outcomes in the real world. But that is the middle way the Buddha modelled for us when dealing with samsara.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dhamma Chameleon wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:57 am
thepea wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:29 am In the spirit of this it is not my responsibility to prevent any woman from seeking an abortion, but if medical industry or others stopped providing this service abortion would be a non issue.
Yes, if you consider back-street abortions and more death and disease a non-issue.
The legal situation of abortion in a country does not influence the abortion rate, but illegality is associated with a much greater risk of complications and death.
(emphasis mine) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9253669/

I am anti-killing yet believe abortion must be made safely possible, even though I'd rather people didn't resort to it. You can acknowledge something must be made available without agreeing or condoning it, because you see that the alternative is worse. That in line with the dhamma. It is the pragmatic, compassionate and harm-reducing way.

It's much easier to feel comfortable in a black-and-white certainty (when you see the results of it as a non-issue) than it is to weigh up what will actually lead to the least suffering and harmful outcomes in the real world. But that is the middle way the Buddha modelled for us when dealing with samsara.
People will murder anyway, so we may as well let them do it in a humane way. Besides, making murder illegal doesn’t stop people from murdering each other … 🤷🏻‍♂️
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Sasha_A »

It is merely dukkha that comes into being, dukkha that stands and disappears,
Nothing apart from dukkha comes into being, nothing other than dukkha ceases.
- SN5.10
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