I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

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Inedible
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Inedible »

The way I understand it, when you are familiar with Jhana you will know how it feels for the do-er to drop. I'm still trying to get to this point. I'd like to have Jhana.
Spiny Norman
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Spiny Norman »

Gami47 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:24 pm
sakyan wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:09 pm Where are you feeling stuck? What kind of doubt arose in you?
I try to let go of self view, but i keep returning to self view.
Another approach is to examine self-view itself. What does it feel like? Where does the "I am" come from?
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SteRo
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by SteRo »

Gami47 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm Thanks. :namaste:
What do you experience that you consider to be "self view"?
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Tl21G3lVl
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Tl21G3lVl »

Gami47 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm Thanks. :namaste:

I don't know who started this phrase, but it's how to deal with conceit and selfishness.

"Die before you die"
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by SteRo »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:38 am
Gami47 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm Thanks. :namaste:
What do you experience that you consider to be "self view"?
If one experiences "I’m having problems letting go of self view" isn't that experience "I’m having problems" a "self view" in the first place? And isn't the intention to get rid of "self view" necessarily based on "self view"?
"letting go of self view" is a myth.
If however the meaning of "letting go of self view" is simply to weaken self-identification with feelings, thoughts etc. then that's what modern secular psychotherapy knows and applies, too. So from a psychotherapeutic perspective it would be great to weaken the self-identification with the thought "I’m having problems letting go of self view".
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pegembara
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by pegembara »

Gami47 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm Thanks. :namaste:
How about this for a start? The you is just a thought, nothing more than that. Everytime you are stuck, take a step back and just watch without identifying with whatever is going on.
I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.
That's just another thought in a whole string of thoughts. Let that thought come and go. The self that has problems also goes away with the thought!
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Noble Sangha »

What do you consider to be self view? Is it some "self", or I, me, Mine, or something else?
I am a Buddhist that doesn't practice Buddhism. What I practice is nekkhamma, abyāpāda, avihiṁsā, viraga, nirodha or the Noble Eight Fold Path. The elimination / eradication / extermination of defilements, kilesa's, raga, dosa, moha and asava's.

Lineage: Buddha > Sthaviravada > Vibhajjavada > Theravada > Striving for Nibbana.
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Spiny Norman »

pegembara wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:42 am
How about this for a start? The you is just a thought, nothing more than that. Everytime you are stuck, take a step back and just watch without identifying with whatever is going on.
But who is stepping back and doing the watching? Who is observing the I-thought?
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SteRo
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by SteRo »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:55 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:38 am
Gami47 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 pm Thanks. :namaste:
What do you experience that you consider to be "self view"?
If one experiences "I’m having problems letting go of self view" isn't that experience "I’m having problems" a "self view" in the first place? And isn't the intention to get rid of "self view" necessarily based on "self view"?
"letting go of self view" is a myth.
If however the meaning of "letting go of self view" is simply to weaken self-identification with feelings, thoughts etc. then that's what modern secular psychotherapy knows and applies, too. So from a psychotherapeutic perspective it would be great to weaken the self-identification with the thought "I’m having problems letting go of self view".
So I suggest you let go of buddhist views before it's too late.
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pegembara
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by pegembara »

Spiny Norman wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:51 am
pegembara wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:42 am
How about this for a start? The you is just a thought, nothing more than that. Everytime you are stuck, take a step back and just watch without identifying with whatever is going on.
But who is stepping back and doing the watching? Who is observing the I-thought?
Take another step back.
Who’s asking these questions?
Keep stepping back and you find that you are just like a dog chasing it’s tail.

“The light from the sun illuminates everything other than itself.”

The eye sees everything other itself. There’s the experience of seeing but no thing that is doing the seeing.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by asahi »

It is the thought that is observing and knowing .
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Spiny Norman
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Spiny Norman »

asahi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:25 pm It is the thought that is observing and knowing .
How so? A thought can be observed, but does not itself observe - it's a subject, not an object.
And of course most observing is done without the need for thoughts. Thoughts are a sort of internal commentary about what we observe.
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Spiny Norman »

pegembara wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:49 am
Who’s asking these questions?
Exactly my point. And who is making the choice to meditate, keep the precepts, and so on?
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asahi
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by asahi »

Spiny Norman wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:57 pm How so? A thought can be observed, but does not itself observe - it's a subject, not an object.
And of course most observing is done without the need for thoughts. Thoughts are a sort of internal commentary about what we observe.
If you do meditation , whenever being aware or being mindful , soon you will find out the act of observing without giving rise to thought there is no understanding occur . Observing is the state where thought become subside but both are not something separated .
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Spiny Norman
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Re: I’m having problems letting go of self view can you guys help.

Post by Spiny Norman »

asahi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:24 pm
Spiny Norman wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:57 pm How so? A thought can be observed, but does not itself observe - it's a subject, not an object.
And of course most observing is done without the need for thoughts. Thoughts are a sort of internal commentary about what we observe.
If you do meditation , whenever being aware or being mindful , soon you will find out the act of observing without giving rise to thought there is no understanding occur . Observing is the state where thought become subside but both are not something separated .
I don't agree that thought is required for understanding. In my experience, thought is more like an internal verbalisation of what has been understood, a commentary.
And as the mind calms, the commentary subsides.

As for mindfulness, it is based on observation, and therefore based on the duality of observer v. observed.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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