A friend who’s a butcher

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
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Gwi
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:33 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by Gwi »

myfriend wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:08 am Hello everybody,

I’ve been checking this website for quite awhile now and haven’t commented much but I had a question that I was hoping you could help me with.

It’s to do with skilful livelihood and its kammic consequences.

A friend of mine and his family run a very successful butcher business. They aren’t Buddhists and have not grasped the concept of skilful livelihood from the Buddhist point of view.

They live a seemingly happy life and also have the added benefit of making a lot of money from this business. I really don’t think they think their job is a problem. So if the Buddha recommendeds not being involved in the meat trade, how is my friend affected if he doesn’t think there’s a problem and he’s living a happy life and is getting rewarded with lots of money. I’m struggling to understand how this process works.

Thanks!
It is permissible to sell the meat of animals
that have died, for example selling rice
with side dishes (fish and meat).

Don't order meat, for example,
ask for so many pieces,
Provide it every day,
but find the meat
yourself in the
market, don't
order.

What is prohibited is
Those that are still alive,
except for pets (not all), such as
Cats, ornamental fish, horses, livestock, and so on.

Some people may not recommend selling rice
with side dishes (fish and meat) and pets
Including farm animals,
But this is allowed.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
bpallister
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:13 am

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by bpallister »

:hello: Gwi
TRobinson465
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by TRobinson465 »

myfriend wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:08 am
They live a seemingly happy life and also have the added benefit of making a lot of money from this business. I really don’t think they think their job is a problem. So if the Buddha recommended not being involved in the meat trade, how is my friend affected if he doesn’t think there’s a problem and he’s living a happy life and is getting rewarded with lots of money. I’m struggling to understand how this process works.

Thanks!
Many corrupt bureaucrats and drug dealers and pimps live happy and wealthy lives. That does not mean what they do for a living is not problematic. That said. Being a butcher nowadays is different from owning a slaughterhouse, although back in the day they used to be the same. from what i understand if you are so many degrees removed from the killing then there is no bad kamma, so simply having a restaurant that sells meat products generally doesnt count unless its one of those seafood places that kills the fish upon order. Owning a grocery or butcher store that sells meat is more of a grey area if it is sourced directly from a slaughterhouse, although im honestly unsure about this.

It really just depends on how many degrees away from the killing is your friend in his business. From what i understand it is only the person who kills directly and the person ordering the killing that gets bad kamma, but in the modern meat industry supply chain its sorta hard to pinpoint where a butcher would fall on that.

I will say i understand your concerns tho. My 2 best friends who I love dearly are regular drinkers, and as a karma fearing Buddhist it worries me what may happen to them in their next life, although they are good, altruistic and in many ways charitable people so that gives me some relief.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
myfriend
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:32 am

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by myfriend »

TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:14 am
myfriend wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:08 am
They live a seemingly happy life and also have the added benefit of making a lot of money from this business. I really don’t think they think their job is a problem. So if the Buddha recommended not being involved in the meat trade, how is my friend affected if he doesn’t think there’s a problem and he’s living a happy life and is getting rewarded with lots of money. I’m struggling to understand how this process works.

Thanks!
Many corrupt bureaucrats and drug dealers and pimps live happy and wealthy lives. That does not mean what they do for a living is not problematic. That said. Being a butcher nowadays is different from owning a slaughterhouse, although back in the day they used to be the same. from what i understand if you are so many degrees removed from the killing then there is no bad kamma, so simply having a restaurant that sells meat products generally doesnt count unless its one of those seafood places that kills the fish upon order. Owning a grocery or butcher store that sells meat is more of a grey area if it is sourced directly from a slaughterhouse, although im honestly unsure about this.

It really just depends on how many degrees away from the killing is your friend in his business. From what i understand it is only the person who kills directly and the person ordering the killing that gets bad kamma, but in the modern meat industry supply chain its sorta hard to pinpoint where a butcher would fall on that.

I will say i understand your concerns tho. My 2 best friends who I love dearly are regular drinkers, and as a karma fearing Buddhist it worries me what may happen to them in their next life, although they are good, altruistic and in many ways charitable people so that gives me some relief.
Thanks for the answer!
tamdrin
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by tamdrin »

Just because someone doesn't know or refuses to believe in the effects of kamma, doesn't mean kamma fails to function. It unerringly functions regardless of what people belive.
xiwenwang364
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:42 am

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by xiwenwang364 »

i guess that maybe buddha said female eat fish and shrimp
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Ontheway
Posts: 2318
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by Ontheway »

i guess that maybe buddha said female eat fish and shrimp
Nonsense.
One may conquer in battle a thousand times a thousand men, yet he is the best of conquerors who conquers himself.

- Dhammapada
jc1990
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:13 pm

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by jc1990 »

bad kamma leads to suffering.
TryingToMeditate
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:34 am

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by TryingToMeditate »

I'm jc1990 posted above, I want to add more words.

Bad kamma leads to suffering, but if you don't know what is bad and you don't do it with chetana/purposely, then you do get bad fruit but not too much, but if you KNOW it's bad and still do, then you get more suffering because you do with chetana, I believe it this way.
thepea
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by thepea »

TryingToMeditate wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 3:38 am I'm jc1990 posted above, I want to add more words.

Bad kamma leads to suffering, but if you don't know what is bad and you don't do it with chetana/purposely, then you do get bad fruit but not too much, but if you KNOW it's bad and still do, then you get more suffering because you do with chetana, I believe it this way.
What is the bad kamma of a butcher?
Bloody clothes perhaps.
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cappuccino
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Re: A friend who’s a butcher

Post by cappuccino »

myfriend wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:08 am A friend of mine and his family run a very successful butcher business.
No karmic issue
Art of the 21st Century

If we ignore the need of beauty, we find ourselves in a spiritual desert.

Our feeling for beauty is a spiritual and not a sensual emotion.

-Roger Scruton
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