Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
sibling
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Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by sibling »

Hello, I am curious to learn about better interpreting the 7th precept regarding entertainment. Does it apply to games? I do not mean gambling games.

If examples are needed : chess, go/weiqi/baduk, checkers, go fish, Dungeons and Dragons.

Thanks!
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Sam Vara
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

Yes, if we look at the list of games which were played in the Buddha's time, it appears that they are:
"Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, indulge in the following games that are a basis for negligence:[1] aṭṭhapada (a game played on an eight-row chess-board); dasapada (a game played on a ten-row chess-board); ākāsa (a game of the same type played by imagining a board in the air); parihārapatha ("hopscotch," a diagram is drawn on the ground and one has to jump in the allowable spaces avoiding the lines); santika ("spellicans," assembling the pieces in a pile, removing and returning them without disturbing the pile); khalika (dice games); ghaṭika (hitting a short stick with a long stick); salākahattha (a game played by dipping the hand in paint or dye, striking the ground or a wall, and requiring the participants to show the figure of an elephant, a horse etc.); akkha (ball games); paṅgacīra (blowing through toy pipes made of leaves); vaṅkaka (ploughing with miniature ploughs); mokkhacika (turning somersaults); ciṅgulika (playing with paper windmills); pattāḷaka (playing with toy measures); rathaka (playing with toy chariots); dhanuka (playing with toy bows); akkharika (guessing at letters written in the air or on one's back); manesika (guessing others' thoughts); yathāvajja (games involving mimicry of deformities) — the recluse Gotama abstains from such games and recreations.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html

They are designed for entertainment and distraction, so should be avoided by one following this precept.
sibling
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by sibling »

thanks!
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Ceisiwr »

sibling wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:27 pm Hello, I am curious to learn about better interpreting the 7th precept regarding entertainment. Does it apply to games? I do not mean gambling games.

If examples are needed : chess, go/weiqi/baduk, checkers, go fish, Dungeons and Dragons.

Thanks!
Yes.
“In the same way, great king, when a bhikkhu sees that these five hindrances are unabandoned within himself, he regards that as a debt, as a sickness, as confinement in prison, as slavery, as a desert road.”

Sāmaññaphala sutta
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:42 pm Yes, if we look at the list of games which were played in the Buddha's time, it appears that they are:
"Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, indulge in the following games that are a basis for negligence:[1] aṭṭhapada (a game played on an eight-row chess-board); dasapada (a game played on a ten-row chess-board); ākāsa (a game of the same type played by imagining a board in the air); parihārapatha ("hopscotch," a diagram is drawn on the ground and one has to jump in the allowable spaces avoiding the lines); santika ("spellicans," assembling the pieces in a pile, removing and returning them without disturbing the pile); khalika (dice games); ghaṭika (hitting a short stick with a long stick); salākahattha (a game played by dipping the hand in paint or dye, striking the ground or a wall, and requiring the participants to show the figure of an elephant, a horse etc.); akkha (ball games); paṅgacīra (blowing through toy pipes made of leaves); vaṅkaka (ploughing with miniature ploughs); mokkhacika (turning somersaults); ciṅgulika (playing with paper windmills); pattāḷaka (playing with toy measures); rathaka (playing with toy chariots); dhanuka (playing with toy bows); akkharika (guessing at letters written in the air or on one's back); manesika (guessing others' thoughts); yathāvajja (games involving mimicry of deformities) — the recluse Gotama abstains from such games and recreations.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html

They are designed for entertainment and distraction, so should be avoided by one following this precept.
How interesting. curiously it says "honorable recluses" indulge in such games but the Buddha does not. It doesnt seem to outright forbid recluses from doing so. This is different from the stanza after which says "recluses" only. rather than honorable recluses.
Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, enjoy the use of high and luxurious beds and seats, such as: spacious couches; thrones with animal figures carved on the supports; long-haired coverlets; multi-colored patchwork coverlets; white woollen coverlets; woollen coverlets embroidered with flowers; quilts stuffed with cotton; woollen coverlets embroidered with animal figures; woollen coverlets with hair on both sides or on one side; bedspreads embroidered with gems; silk coverlets; dance-hall carpets; elephant, horse or chariot rugs; rugs of antelope-skins; choice spreads made of kadali-deer hides; spreads with red awnings overhead; couches with red cushions for the head and feet — the recluse Gotama abstains from the use of such high and luxurious beds and seats.'
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by TRobinson465 »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:28 pm
How interesting. curiously it says "honorable recluses" indulge in such games but the Buddha does not. It doesnt seem to outright forbid recluses from doing so. This is different from the stanza after which says "recluses" only. rather than honorable recluses.
Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, enjoy the use of high and luxurious beds and seats, such as: spacious couches; thrones with animal figures carved on the supports; long-haired coverlets; multi-colored patchwork coverlets; white woollen coverlets; woollen coverlets embroidered with flowers; quilts stuffed with cotton; woollen coverlets embroidered with animal figures; woollen coverlets with hair on both sides or on one side; bedspreads embroidered with gems; silk coverlets; dance-hall carpets; elephant, horse or chariot rugs; rugs of antelope-skins; choice spreads made of kadali-deer hides; spreads with red awnings overhead; couches with red cushions for the head and feet — the recluse Gotama abstains from the use of such high and luxurious beds and seats.'
Hmm nevermind, looking at the pali on suttacentral there is no difference between the ones who play games and the ones who sit on high beds. i wonder why access to insight translated some lines as as honorable and some not when the pali wording is really the same.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Johann »

For the most, good householder, they are not only entertainment but require to uphold very harmful mind of greed, anger and delusion. So even an "ordinary" lay person would avoid training in killing, taking away, destroying, bad kamma by mind, to lose and downwardly leading.
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by SarathW »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:42 pm Yes, if we look at the list of games which were played in the Buddha's time, it appears that they are:
"Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, indulge in the following games that are a basis for negligence:[1] aṭṭhapada (a game played on an eight-row chess-board); dasapada (a game played on a ten-row chess-board); ākāsa (a game of the same type played by imagining a board in the air); parihārapatha ("hopscotch," a diagram is drawn on the ground and one has to jump in the allowable spaces avoiding the lines); santika ("spellicans," assembling the pieces in a pile, removing and returning them without disturbing the pile); khalika (dice games); ghaṭika (hitting a short stick with a long stick); salākahattha (a game played by dipping the hand in paint or dye, striking the ground or a wall, and requiring the participants to show the figure of an elephant, a horse etc.); akkha (ball games); paṅgacīra (blowing through toy pipes made of leaves); vaṅkaka (ploughing with miniature ploughs); mokkhacika (turning somersaults); ciṅgulika (playing with paper windmills); pattāḷaka (playing with toy measures); rathaka (playing with toy chariots); dhanuka (playing with toy bows); akkharika (guessing at letters written in the air or on one's back); manesika (guessing others' thoughts); yathāvajja (games involving mimicry of deformities) — the recluse Gotama abstains from such games and recreations.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html

They are designed for entertainment and distraction, so should be avoided by one following this precept.
:goodpost:
Lay people observe eight precepts only once a month on Uposatha days.
So there is no if, buts, and doubts. On this day you have to avoid all the entertainment and other precepts.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by asahi »

Eight precepts can be observed at any day of the month and not restricted to one day .
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by cappuccino »

sibling wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:27 pm 7th precept regarding entertainment.
you don’t need 7th precept…
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Sam Vara
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:13 pm
sibling wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:27 pm 7th precept regarding entertainment.
you don’t need 7th precept…
It depends on what we mean by the term, of course, but we don't really "need" any of them, do we? :shrug:
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:32 pm but we don't really "need" any of them, do we?
Not at this particular time
Art of the 21st Century

If we ignore the need of beauty, we find ourselves in a spiritual desert.

Our feeling for beauty is a spiritual and not a sensual emotion.

-Roger Scruton
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:34 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:32 pm but we don't really "need" any of them, do we?
Not at this particular time
But that's a different issue from whether they are beneficial, isn't it? If a practitioner wishes to keep the 8 precepts for uposatha, or for a period of time like a retreat, or for a long period, then it makes sense to know what is involved in keeping them.
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Alex123
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Alex123 »

I think that games are entertainment, unless one does it for a living, and even then, it is probably still entertainment.

Ideally, I think that it is a good idea to abstain from games, entertainment, very luxurious items, etc.

Indulging in those things is work of lobha, an akusala action. Sadly, not everyone can do that all the time. It is a good goal to aim for. IMHO.
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:43 pm But that's a different issue from whether they are beneficial, isn't it?
I think it will decrease quality of life

:shrug:
Art of the 21st Century

If we ignore the need of beauty, we find ourselves in a spiritual desert.

Our feeling for beauty is a spiritual and not a sensual emotion.

-Roger Scruton
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