Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Sam Vara
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:48 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:43 pm But that's a different issue from whether they are beneficial, isn't it?
I think it will decrease quality of life

:shrug:
Well, thanks for your opinion. Is it based on personal experience, deep reflection on the suttas, or some sort of socio-psychological survey?
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

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Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:51 pm Is it based on personal experience, deep reflection on the suttas, or some sort of socio-psychological survey?
Yes
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Sam Vara
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:51 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:51 pm Is it based on personal experience, deep reflection on the suttas, or some sort of socio-psychological survey?
Yes
Thanks! Can you share your experience, provide sutta references and exegesis, and a link to the survey?
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cappuccino
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:56 pm Thanks! Can you share your experience …?
the 7th precept is very advanced


hence you don't need it yet
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Sam Vara
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:57 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:56 pm Thanks! Can you share your experience …?
the 7th precept is very advanced


hence you don't need it yet
How do you know what other people need, cap?
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cappuccino
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pm How do you know what other people need, cap?
because they will know if what I say does not apply
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Sam Vara
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:01 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pm How do you know what other people need, cap?
because they will know if what I say does not apply
Nobody understands what you say, cap, let alone knows whether it applies.
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cappuccino
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

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Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:02 pm Nobody understands what you say, cap, let alone knows whether it applies.
:)
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nothingworthgrasping
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Re: Eight Precepts : are games entertainment?

Post by nothingworthgrasping »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:10 pm :)
Wow, the mysterious Cappuccino has changed his profile picture. Impermanent in action, everything will change, identity is just an illusion, I guess.

Back to the question. Are games entertainment? Definitely yes, unfortunately there's no way around that.
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Post by sunnat »

Venerable Ledi Sayadaw in ‘the eight fold noble path and its factors explained’ wrote :

“abstinence from useless chatter, refers to such plays and novels as contain no worthy goals (attha), no rightful means thereto (dhamma), and no reference to good conduct (vinaya). Such matters do not inspire those who read or listen to them though they may have transient entertainment value.”

The implication being that plays and novels that contain worthy goals and how to rightfully attain them and refer to good conduct, while having entertainment value, are not useless. One may stretch this to include films, graphic novels and games, it certainly includes jataka stories and even discourses.

The point being that if that which has entertainment value is correctly instructive then it has a role in developing the path.

Further :

“The two conditions for useless chatter [are]

1. There must be intention to say things which bring forth no wholesome benefits.
2. Such things must be said.

As regards “things which bring forth no wholesome benefits” this means plays and novels which do not lead to the growth of good qualities. Nowadays we have numerous plays and novels which satisfy all the conditions of useless chatter.

Fulfilment of the conditions given above … are sufficient not only to break [precepts] but also to make kamma which will be a “path of kamma” leading to rebirth in the states of deprivation. But in the case of the precepts dealing with false speech, tale-bearing, and useless chatter, the following have to be added if these actions are to be [unwholesome] paths of kamma:

3. in the case of useless chatter, others must think that the plays and novels are true accounts.

These are the conditions relating to the seven kinds of wrong-doing which should be known by those who daily keep the precepts…”

However, these interpretations are for ordinary people in training except when observing Uposatha days. When it comes to arhats and fully realised beings such activities are not partaken. On Uposatha days the ordinary disciple : ‘As long as they live, the arahants abstain from dancing, singing, music, watching shows, wearing garlands, beautifying themselves with perfumes & cosmetics. Today I too, for this day & night, abstain from dancing, singing, music, watching shows, wearing garlands, beautifying myself with perfumes & cosmetics. By means of this factor I emulate the arahants, and my Uposatha will be observed’ by this emulation the person has opportunities to awaken to the unwholesomeness’s. The discernment of what is and what is not useful progresses.
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Re:

Post by Ceisiwr »

sunnat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:15 am Venerable Ledi Sayadaw in ‘the eight fold noble path and its factors explained’ wrote :

“abstinence from useless chatter, refers to such plays and novels as contain no worthy goals (attha), no rightful means thereto (dhamma), and no reference to good conduct (vinaya). Such matters do not inspire those who read or listen to them though they may have transient entertainment value.”

The implication being that plays and novels that contain worthy goals and how to rightfully attain them and refer to good conduct, while having entertainment value, are not useless. One may stretch this to include films, graphic novels and games, it certainly includes jataka stories and even discourses.

The point being that if that which has entertainment value is correctly instructive then it has a role in developing the path.

Further :

“The two conditions for useless chatter [are]

1. There must be intention to say things which bring forth no wholesome benefits.
2. Such things must be said.

As regards “things which bring forth no wholesome benefits” this means plays and novels which do not lead to the growth of good qualities. Nowadays we have numerous plays and novels which satisfy all the conditions of useless chatter.

Fulfilment of the conditions given above … are sufficient not only to break [precepts] but also to make kamma which will be a “path of kamma” leading to rebirth in the states of deprivation. But in the case of the precepts dealing with false speech, tale-bearing, and useless chatter, the following have to be added if these actions are to be [unwholesome] paths of kamma:

3. in the case of useless chatter, others must think that the plays and novels are true accounts.

These are the conditions relating to the seven kinds of wrong-doing which should be known by those who daily keep the precepts…”

However, these interpretations are for ordinary people in training except when observing Uposatha days. When it comes to arhats and fully realised beings such activities are not partaken. On Uposatha days the ordinary disciple : ‘As long as they live, the arahants abstain from dancing, singing, music, watching shows, wearing garlands, beautifying themselves with perfumes & cosmetics. Today I too, for this day & night, abstain from dancing, singing, music, watching shows, wearing garlands, beautifying myself with perfumes & cosmetics. By means of this factor I emulate the arahants, and my Uposatha will be observed’ by this emulation the person has opportunities to awaken to the unwholesomeness’s. The discernment of what is and what is not useful progresses.
That's interesting. Thanks. Always good to hear the Venerable's input.
“In faith, recollect the immeasurable Buddha!
Your body soaked with rapture; you’ll always be full of joy.

In faith, recollect the immeasurable Dhamma!
Your body soaked with rapture; you’ll always be full of joy.

In faith, recollect the immeasurable Saṅgha!
Your body soaked with rapture; you’ll always be full of joy”


Tekicchakārittheragāthā 6.2
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