Why is Pali deemed a 'special' language?

[BrokenBones]

The Pali word for buddha is Buddho, mentally reciting buddho gives rise to mindfulness of the present moment. Maybe some of Pali might be magical.

This.

This is what happens when mysticism pollutes the Dhamma.

The word 'Buddha' or 'happiness' or 'love' or even 'Buddho' has the same power as each other. What emotions & thoughts these words give rise to are different for each individual. It is down to the individual what words can trigger a deeper understanding. All this has to be backed up by investigating the Dhamma so that one word can help trigger a line of thought/emotion/feeling.

The 'magic' isn't in the language... it's down to the individuals understanding/beliefs/emotions.

Tennyson used his own name to bring about euphoric states... English is not a magical language and neither is Pali.

Some people have euphoric states with 'Buddho' but that is down to the individual... not the language.

Which is all fine & dandy. The problem comes when people proclaim Pali is the language of Dhamma. Not for me... I can barely understand the basics. It matters not that the Dhamma has come to us through the Pali language, it might as well have been Spanish for all the good that would do me.

Immense gratitude & salutations to modern day translators without which I wouldn't even understand the five precepts.

[Bundokji]

Immense gratitude & salutations to modern day translators without which I wouldn't even understand the five precepts.

Maybe the term "translation" is key in the sense that it convey some kind of appropriation that makes the teachings relevant to moderners. Why then the emphasis on describing it as an ancient language? just to be historically accurate? or to highlight a bias integral to the present?

As to the practice of magic, spells often use strange utterances to communicate with hidden powers. From evolutionary perspective, it reflects our older brains and our relationship with nature. One could argue that modern sciences are rooted in the practice of magic, and parallels are often presented between the two through science fiction. Some scientists such as Isaac Newton were more interest in antiquity (alchemy) than modern science, and yet, he is famous for his contributions in physics and gravity.

In brief, learning an ancient language beyond mere academic interest can reflect taking pragmata into an extreme to the extent of making it redundant, a sign of mastery over the present.

[patta.1999]

Hi Patta.1999

I understand the cult around the Pali language, it's similar to the Tibetan worship on mantras. It's just a language. It's not special, it's not mystical, the Buddha didn't speak it and abandoned babies don't grow up magically speaking in Pali.

I think you've forgotten that this is the general section and alternative views are allowable ( I hope you're not one of those new age liberals who go into meltdown when their views are challenged). Whilst I adhere to a large amount of Theravada teaching I am not overly keen on tantric practices like 'magical languages' or brahmanical lineage worship (you missed out 'Ancients' ).

All you have is empty rhetoric... the suttas (the Buddha's actual words) warn against using specialised languages and insists on local language... you might not like to hear that but that's the way it is.

Dear BrokenBones, I really do like your passion about the topic

I do not recall any magic about the language. Being a language spoken by the Buddha, I do not see it as magic. And if it is factual as stated by the Elders of the Order, it is just a fact and it does not give magic power to certain words. A language is a language which is used to communicate with each-other. Even if the first words are spoken in the given language by abandoned babies or not.

But still probably the most important language in the world as it is the language which preserved the teachings of the Buddha.

[Pasindu]

Magic?

Vibrations?

Elitism?

Reluctance to use several words to convey the full meaning of one Pali word?

Because of its antiquity and that it never was a spoken language? Perhaps it gives commentators the ability to redefine certain words (words, whose Sanskrit counterpart meanings sometimes seem more appropriate & fitting).

Pali is said to be the language of all Buddha. It is said that they all chose that language due to it's rich and expressiveness when it comes to spiritual terms. (samsara, athma, karma) Also, pali is said to contain no swear words, and only contain the one word that is used to insult someone called "moghapurisa"
which means stupid person. It is said that pali is also the language of brahma world.

[BrokenBones]

Magic?

Vibrations?

Elitism?

Reluctance to use several words to convey the full meaning of one Pali word?

Because of its antiquity and that it never was a spoken language? Perhaps it gives commentators the ability to redefine certain words (words, whose Sanskrit counterpart meanings sometimes seem more appropriate & fitting).

Pali is said to be the language of all Buddha. It is said that they all chose that language due to it's rich and expressiveness when it comes to spiritual terms. (samsara, athma, karma) Also, pali is said to contain no swear words, and only contain the one word that is used to insult someone called "moghapurisa"
which means stupid person. It is said that pali is also the language of brahma world.

It's also said the moon landing were a hoax, our leaders are lizard people and OJ is completely innocent... don't believe things just because someone tells you something or is written down by the 'Ancients'.

Maybe if you 'know' these things to be true by oneself then you'd be on firmer ground.

The fact there are no swear words is hardly surprising in a language created for religious texts.

The Buddha directed his followers not to use a 'special' language but use the local dialect... why are you arguing against the Buddha's directions?

[Pasindu]

Magic?

Vibrations?

Elitism?

Reluctance to use several words to convey the full meaning of one Pali word?

Because of its antiquity and that it never was a spoken language? Perhaps it gives commentators the ability to redefine certain words (words, whose Sanskrit counterpart meanings sometimes seem more appropriate & fitting).

Pali is said to be the language of all Buddha. It is said that they all chose that language due to it's rich and expressiveness when it comes to spiritual terms. (samsara, athma, karma) Also, pali is said to contain no swear words, and only contain the one word that is used to insult someone called "moghapurisa"
which means stupid person. It is said that pali is also the language of brahma world.

It's also said the moon landing were a hoax, our leaders are lizard people and OJ is completely innocent... don't believe things just because someone tells you something or is written down by the 'Ancients'.

Maybe if you 'know' these things to be true by oneself then you'd be on firmer ground.

The fact there are no swear words is hardly surprising in a language created for religious texts.

The Buddha directed his followers not to use a 'special' language but use the local dialect... why are you arguing against the Buddha's directions?

No need to get angry. I never claimed to know those things to a certainty. Which is especially why I used "It is said" because I personally didn't get to know Buddha in this life. but so haven't you, right?

Plus, if you discard the ancient teachings that quickly, wouldn't tripitaka be one of the first books to go down the drain? As all sutta vinaya abhidhamma in it are the recollections of 'ancients' as Ananda thero, then going from generation to generation by memory until being written down? Are we to throw away the parts we have no way of proving? Buddha is not alive today so we can count his 32 unique body characteristics. So is that claim a conspiracy too?

The above facts are from various dharma sermons I listened to over years. I never demanded anyone to believe this, though I myself do. I only wished to add those to the conversation so someone else might have heard those things and maybe able to present a source or a quote.

So again, I cannot prove these facts, but then again, you can not disprove them either as niether of us know all. It is worth believe what you believe but not before listening to others.

PS: Actually, never mind. Just now I saw your comments to others posts. No point discussing this further.

[BrokenBones]

Pali...

...

No need to get angry. I never claimed to know those things to a certainty. Which is especially why I used "It is said" because I personally didn't get to know Buddha in this life. but so haven't you, right?

Plus, if you discard the ancient teachings that quickly, wouldn't tripitaka be one of the first books to go down the drain? As all sutta vinaya abhidhamma in it are the recollections of 'ancients' as Ananda thero, then going from generation to generation by memory until being written down? Are we to throw away the parts we have no way of proving? Buddha is not alive today so we can count his 32 unique body characteristics. So is that claim a conspiracy too?

The above facts are from various dharma sermons I listened to over years. I never demanded anyone to believe this, though I myself do. I only wished to add those to the conversation so someone else might have heard those things and maybe able to present a source or a quote.

So again, I cannot prove these facts, but then again, you can not disprove them either as niether of us know all. It is worth believe what you believe but not before listening to others.

PS: Actually, never mind. Just now I saw your comments to others posts. No point discussing this further.

not angry... just forcefully defending the Buddha's actual words.

As for the suttas being in the same basket as Abhidhamma... I wonder who put them there... too funny. I have found the suttas to be verifiable... the commentaries not so much.

It is hardly fitting that you accuse someone of being angry and then throwing a hissy fit.

You don't want to discuss this further and I think that's the correct line to take... unless you can find a quote from the Buddha regarding Pali being the language of the gods.

I am a very simple Buddhist... i.e. the Buddha is the teacher... everything else is a reflection or a distortion.

[Ceisiwr]

Things can be difficult for us to understand, doesn't mean it would not happen or not true. And that doesn't falsify the doctrine or its value.

That Pali is the original language of humans is demonstrably false. It’s in the commentaries though and not the suttas, so you should be fine with rejecting this particular view of the commentators. Of course that does mean that commentary is not infallible. Some of it is wrong. On the Agganna sutta, I wouldn’t interpret that as an explanation of origins. It’s aimed at potential Brahmin converts, for one.

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.
Arabic is the sacred language of Muslims.

You want to say Pāḷi was not spoken by The Buddho?
Then what is the function of Parittā? Okay, just replace
it with English (EBT likes to spread SUBJECTIVE views).

My post has nothing to do with if the Buddha spoke Pali or not.

[Gwi II]

That Pali is the original language of humans is demonstrably false. It’s in the commentaries though and not the suttas, so you should be fine with rejecting this particular view of the commentators. Of course that does mean that commentary is not infallible. Some of it is wrong. On the Agganna sutta, I wouldn’t interpret that as an explanation of origins. It’s aimed at potential Brahmin converts, for one.

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.
Arabic is the sacred language of Muslims.

You want to say Pāḷi was not spoken by The Buddho?
Then what is the function of Parittā? Okay, just replace
it with English (EBT likes to spread SUBJECTIVE views).

My post has nothing to do with if the Buddha spoke Pali or not.

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.
Parittā is most effective when using the
sacred Pāḷi language.

[Ceisiwr]

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

This is also incorrect.

[Gwi II]

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

This is also incorrect.

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

Arabic is the sacred language of Muslims.

You want to say Pāḷi was not spoken by The Buddho?

[Ceisiwr]

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

This is also incorrect.

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

Arabic is the sacred language of Muslims.

You want to say Pāḷi was not spoken by The Buddho?

Its the sacred language of Theravādins, not Buddhists. Once again, I've made no comment on what language the Buddha spoke.

[Sam Vara]

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

This is also incorrect.

Pāḷi is the sacred language of Buddhists.

Arabic is the sacred language of Muslims.

You want to say Pāḷi was not spoken by The Buddho?

Is shouting the sacred language of the Indonesians? There's no need to increase font size to make a point.