Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

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Ṭhānuttamo
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Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Ṭhānuttamo »

Greetings in Dhamma!
I recall someone once told me that Ajahn Jayasāro had completed a year in complete solitude in a cave (someone bringing him the necessary requisites). He purportedly stated that, in retrospect, it would have been better for him to go on alms round at least. Can anybody direct me to this talk? Where can I listen to or download it? Much thanks!
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Johann
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Johann »

A. Bhikkhu wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:54 am Greetings in Dhamma!
I recall someone once told me that Ajahn Jayasāro had completed a year in complete solitude in a cave (someone bringing him the necessary requisites). He purportedly stated that, in retrospect, it would have been better for him to go on alms round at least. Can anybody direct me to this talk? Where can I listen to or download it? Much thanks!
Why, by the name of the Gems, doesn't Bhante ask himself? And why, in the name of the Gems, does he still approach householder with even folded hands?

It would be better for Bhante to go instead of alms.
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Ṭhānuttamo
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Ṭhānuttamo »

Johann wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:45 am Why, by the name of the Gems, doesn't Bhante ask himself?
Can you rephrase for the sake of clarity? Are you suggesting I contact Ajahn Jayasāro directly?
Johann wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:45 am And why, in the name of the Gems, does he still approach householder with even folded hands? It would be better for Bhante to go instead of alms.
It is somewhat impertinent to repeatedly and publicly suggest I should stop greeting householders with añjali, but let me nevertheless inform you that this is merely a profile picture with which I intend to greet no one; since this is not related to the question about where to find his dhamma-talk, I'll leave it with that.

If you like to debate the appropriateness of using such an image, I suggest you contact me privately or open a general thread. Thanks.
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Johann
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Johann »

..as if the smart Venerables ever would listen to direct approach... Sitting in caves, living improper, and let server, serve... they are not aware of debts, goodness, duties at all.

Bhantes Robes are merely form, and "meaningless", yes. But nevertheless Body and speech first trained in this Dhamma-Vinaya.

It's right within this talk, but no change to hear it, if no proper attention.

It's about leaning what living on goodness means, it's about the different between younster ego-trips and anarchy, about leaving home and about reflecting given requisites.

Bhante Ṭhānuttamo has given ways as well, and is not asked to pull the heritage into common and other purposed domain. No need to steady take not given, no need to let householder take teachings from other monks as many are used to do, send them out for hunts.

Like the Yogi in the cave...

Althought all can of course feed the budget of a young desiring to travel around, to do the servants for householder and Nuns, a do retreat in a cave, it's all not increasing the faith (toward right) and a shame for those moderst and good practicing.
Last edited by Johann on Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Johann wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:36 am ..as if the smart Venerables ever would listen to direct approach...
Johann, you are very negative and have unskillful speech recently. Perhaps you should make a rule to never rebuke anyone until your own conduct is perfect?

How to admonish another skillfully:
"O bhikkhus, a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another should do so after investigating five conditions in himself and after establishing five other conditions in himself. What are the five conditions which he should investigate in himself?

[1] "Am I one who practices purity in bodily action, flawless and untainted...?

[2] "Am I one who practices purity in speech, flawless and untainted...?

[3] "Is the heart of goodwill, free from malice, established in me towards fellow-farers in the holy life...?

[4] "Am I or am I not one who has heard much, who bears in mind what he has heard, who stores up what he has heard? Those teachings which are good alike in their beginning, middle, and ending, proclaiming perfectly the spirit and the letter of the utterly purified holy life — have such teachings been much heard by me, borne in mind, practiced in speech, pondered in the heart and rightly penetrated by insight...?

[5] "Are the Patimokkhas [rules of conduct for monks and nuns] in full thoroughly learned by heart, well-analyzed with thorough knowledge of their meanings, clearly divided sutta by sutta and known in minute detail by me...?

"These five conditions must be investigated in himself.

"And what other five conditions must be established in himself?

[1] "Do I speak at the right time, or not?

[2] "Do I speak of facts, or not?

[3] "Do I speak gently or harshly?

[4] "Do I speak profitable words or not?

[5] "Do I speak with a kindly heart, or inwardly malicious?

"O bhikkhus, these five conditions are to be investigated in himself and the latter five established in himself by a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another."

— AN V (From The Patimokkha, Ñanamoli Thera, trans.)
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Johann
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Johann »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:32 am
Johann wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:36 am ..as if the smart Venerables ever would listen to direct approach...
Johann, you are very negative and have unskillful speech recently. Perhaps you should make a rule to never rebuke anyone until your own conduct is perfect?

Wise! Also in regard of praise, good householder, to know and reflect the attainments of oneself, that of others, know clear of what Dhamma-Vinaya, starting by what even 7 years old chil-monks have no problem to observe at large, if not raised just in book shops, by rented nannies, but with real parents of this heritage.
Last edited by Johann on Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Zom
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Zom »

Can anybody direct me to this talk? Where can I listen to or download it? Much thanks!
Don't know if such exists in record. But, I heard about this myself from him personally, quite a long time ago, maybe be 12-13 years ago. I don't remember much details but from what I remember, generally it wasn't a pleasant experience and he didn't recommend undertaking such practice. More than that, we don't find such instances in the Canon. Even Buddha himself went into solitude just for 2 weeks (up to a month). Probably ajahn picked up this practice from tibetan sources and tried to push himself the limits to see what might happen.
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Suvira »

I don't have the Ajahn Jayasaro reference.

Long periods of silence are attested in the canon, e.g. Gangatiriya in the Theragatha.

https://suttacentral.net/thag2.4/en/suj ... ript=latin

It's not just a Tibetan thing.

If anyone finds the reference please let us know.
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Ṭhānuttamo »

Zom wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:20 pm
Can anybody direct me to this talk? Where can I listen to or download it? Much thanks!
Don't know if such exists in record. But, I heard about this myself from him personally, quite a long time ago, maybe be 12-13 years ago. I don't remember much details but from what I remember, generally it wasn't a pleasant experience and he didn't recommend undertaking such practice. More than that, we don't find such instances in the Canon. Even Buddha himself went into solitude just for 2 weeks (up to a month). Probably ajahn picked up this practice from tibetan sources and tried to push himself the limits to see what might happen.
Interesting, thanks for sharing this titbit; I hope to also have the opportunity one day to speak to him about his experiences, perhaps unless I eventually find his Dhamma-talk with all the information :smile: ... As far as I remember, the Buddha went into full retreat for up to three months. Such intensive solitude has gotten somewhat of a bad rap, I think, but the evidence for experiencing pathology due to solitude seems to suggest that it arises primarily from harsh physical conditions, such as sleep deprivation, starvation and physicals punishment, experienced alongside the solitude as such. I think healthy individuals under relatively comfortable conditions have too many protective mechanisms in place that keep them from becoming insane. Perhaps Ajahn pushed himself to the limit also physically (fasting, enduring mold etc.) so that his experience turned a bit sour?
Suvira wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:14 am Long periods of silence are attested in the canon, e.g. Gangatiriya in the Theragatha.
Some of my favorites!
Suvira wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:14 am It's not just a Tibetan thing.
True. In fact, the Milindapañha explicitly lists 28 highly beneficial outcomes of full retreat in the way the Buddha practiced it. I personally think the practice is undervalued in present-day Theravāda circles.
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Zom
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by Zom »

Long periods of silence are attested in the canon, e.g. Gangatiriya in the Theragatha.
Period of silence is nothing in comparison with locking oneself in a (small?) dark cave for a year.
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Re: Ajahn Jayasāro Cave Retreat

Post by frank k »

I googled to look for the OP, didn't find anything yet, but found this which is pretty nice


Tibetan nun (English woman) lived for 12 years in a cave, 3 years in solitary retreat
http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... or-12.html


And this:
Ajahn Jayasaro on the joy of ordaining and living the spiritual life - I got strong jhāna just reading it - That's pamojja and pīti
http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... g-and.html

I highly recommend anyone who's serious about their Buddhist practice, at least once in your life, do at least a temporary ordinaton for an extended period (3 months, 6 months, 3 years, etc...) in a community you find inspiring.
You'll get what Ajahn Jayasaro is talking about in the section I highlighted, and it may light the fire that sends you irreversibly toward a path leading to nirvana.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
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