No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
auto
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

SteRo wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:42 pm Don't know what you are talking about. Theravadin doctrine does not deny a doer but theravadin doctrine does deny identity of self and perception and/or thought and/or feeling
identity of self? hmm
identity(sakkaya ditthi) and self(atta) are two different things but related in a way that the sakkaya(clinging aggerates) aren't the self.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:07 pm Yayyy!
Well noted.
Thanks a lot for explicitly declaring & clarifying beyond doubt that, for OP, Advaita and Buddhism are the same.
your welcome
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Johann wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:35 pm Jains ever thought that way, and that's why the Buddha, knowing, "even if understanding a single sentence, would be of great benefit for them", taught them also, last in line, the sectarians, out of compassion.

Good now to leave the Brahman and Jain domain.

mudita
what Jains(Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta) think Buddha is teaching is this,
https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd6/en/brahmali?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “But Sīha, why visit the ascetic Gotama who believes that actions don’t have results when you believe that they do?
“Kiṁ pana tvaṁ, sīha, kiriyavādo samāno akiriyavādaṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ dassanāya upasaṅkamissasi?
For the ascetic Gotama believes in inaction, teaches that, and trains his disciples in that.”
Samaṇo hi, sīha, gotamo akiriyavādo akiriyāya dhammaṁ deseti, tena ca sāvake vinetī”ti.
And Sīha’s intention to go died down.
Atha kho sīhassa senāpatissa yo ahosi gamikābhisaṅkhāro bhagavantaṁ dassanāya, so paṭippassambhi.
>Jains think buddha is teaching inaction.
it's fair to assume your take on advaita is bad as well since you listed it on same level(with Jains).
auto
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

auto wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:57 pm
SteRo wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:42 pm Don't know what you are talking about. Theravadin doctrine does not deny a doer but theravadin doctrine does deny identity of self and perception and/or thought and/or feeling
identity of self? hmm
identity(sakkaya ditthi) and self(atta) are two different things but related in a way that the sakkaya(clinging aggerates) aren't the self.
edit typo: identity(sakkaya) not sakkaya ditthi.
auto
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

vajira sutta
https://suttacentral.net/sn5.10/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “Why do you believe there’s such a thing as a ‘sentient being’?
“Kiṁ nu sattoti paccesi,
Māra, is this your theory?
māra diṭṭhigataṁ nu te;
This is just a pile of conditions,
Suddha­saṅkhā­r­apuñ­jo­yaṁ­,
you won’t find a sentient being here.
nayidha sattupalabbhati.

When the parts are assembled
Yathā hi aṅgasambhārā,
we use the word ‘chariot’.
hoti saddo ratho iti;
So too, when the aggregates are present
Evaṁ khandhesu santesu,
‘sentient being’ is the convention we use.
hoti sattoti sammuti. Variant: sammuti → sammati (sya-all, km)

But it’s only suffering that comes to be,
Dukkhameva hi sambhoti,
lasts a while, then disappears.
dukkhaṁ tiṭṭhati veti ca;
Naught but suffering comes to be,
Nāññatra dukkhā sambhoti,
naught but suffering ceases.”
nāññaṁ dukkhā nirujjhatī”ti.
compare with,
https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/2/5/32/ wrote: yadaite ’saṅgatā bhāvā
bhūtendriya-mano-guṇāḥ
yadāyatana-nirmāṇe
na śekur brahma-vittama

Synonyms
yadā — as long as; ete — all these; asaṅgatāḥ — without being assembled; bhāvāḥ — remained so situated; bhūta — elements; indriya — senses; manaḥ — mind; guṇāḥ — modes of nature; yadā — so long; āyatana — the body; nirmāṇe — in being formed; na śekuḥ — was not possible; brahma-vit-tama — O Nārada, the best knower of transcendental knowledge.

Translation
O Nārada, best of the transcendentalists, the forms of the body cannot take place as long as these created parts, namely the elements, senses, mind and modes of nature, are not assembled.
i think the convention of sentient being(satta) would be the term āyatana in the Purana text. Also the term nirmāṇe is of interest. With a simple reasoning, the satta could be the nirmanakaya?
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Spiny Norman »

auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:37 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:34 pm Advaita is similar but inferior
I say similar, but for me it is same. Advaita and budhism. Not like those who get advaita results will land into some alternate reality.
So how is "sabbe dhamma anatta" compatible with "Aham Brahmasmi"?
Please explain.

In case you don't know, Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman) is one of the four great sayings of Advaita.
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Spiny Norman »

auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:18 pm cool that you claim atman-brahman is impermeant. texts say something else.
Which texts?
In the Buddhist suttas only Nibbana is exempt from impermanence.
Are you claiming Nibbana is equal to Atman/Brahman?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Spiny Norman »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:34 pm Advaita is similar but inferior
No, it's just different. The OP hasn't made a case for them being similar.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:12 am
auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:18 pm cool that you claim atman-brahman is impermeant. texts say something else.
Which texts?
In the Buddhist suttas only Nibbana is exempt from impermanence.
Are you claiming Nibbana is equal to Atman/Brahman?
you are taking it out of contexts.

The idea is that the purana texts say(paraphrazing, my conclusion) that attaining Big self will end rebirth. Budhist text also say things about ending rebirth. So, yes attaining nibbana is equal to attaining Brahman since both end the cycle in samsara.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:05 am So how is "sabbe dhamma anatta" compatible with "Aham Brahmasmi"?
Please explain.

In case you don't know, Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman) is one of the four great sayings of Advaita.
For starters what does the sabbe dhamma anatta mean?
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

approximately,

1. becoming aware: waking state
2. mental revisitation of that state.
3. there is internal breath of that waking state what mixes with sexual centers. If to become aware, then there immediately are arising elements but this state often goes unnoticed, but when you can switch back to that state you then become aware to the internal breath or substance. At some point it is paste-like, no particles
4. then you can realize the 'knower', additional layer to when being aware, you know that you are aware, simply put 'knowing'.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Spiny Norman »

auto wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:14 pm
Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:12 am
auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:18 pm cool that you claim atman-brahman is impermeant. texts say something else.
Which texts?
In the Buddhist suttas only Nibbana is exempt from impermanence.
Are you claiming Nibbana is equal to Atman/Brahman?
you are taking it out of contexts.

The idea is that the purana texts say(paraphrazing, my conclusion) that attaining Big self will end rebirth. Budhist text also say things about ending rebirth. So, yes attaining nibbana is equal to attaining Brahman since both end the cycle in samsara.
Where in the Buddhist suttas does it say that Nibbana is Brahman?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Spiny Norman
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Spiny Norman »

auto wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:23 pm
Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:05 am So how is "sabbe dhamma anatta" compatible with "Aham Brahmasmi"?
Please explain.

In case you don't know, Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman) is one of the four great sayings of Advaita.
For starters what does the sabbe dhamma anatta mean?
There is no self in the created or the uncreated.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
auto
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:44 pm
auto wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:23 pm
Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:05 am So how is "sabbe dhamma anatta" compatible with "Aham Brahmasmi"?
Please explain.

In case you don't know, Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman) is one of the four great sayings of Advaita.
For starters what does the sabbe dhamma anatta mean?
There is no self in the created or the uncreated.
yea. What is the issue you have with it, you wish there would be one?
Spiny Norman
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Spiny Norman »

auto wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:54 pm
Spiny Norman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:44 pm
auto wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:23 pm
For starters what does the sabbe dhamma anatta mean?
There is no self in the created or the uncreated.
yea. What is the issue you have with it, you wish there would be one?
No. It means there is no self in Nibbana.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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