End of suffering ?

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Bundokji
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: End of suffering ?

Post by Bundokji »

Microdose wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:45 pm When siddharta awakened to buddha, he spoke about his path being the end of suffering

Yet he experiences old age, sickness and death

The things he said were suffering

How did the buddha go through these things without suffering
Old age, sickness and death are described as the three messengers. They provide a basis for a fourth messenger to arise: the ascetic or the spiritual seeker. The four messengers are the drivers of purposive or moral action where actions have consequences. The practice does not negate these, but the understanding of kamma, its origin, transcendence and the path makes the associated suffering insignificant when compared to living unexamined life.
"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such & such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress.

"There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable.[1] A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into a small amount of water in a cup. What do you think? Would the water in the cup become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"Yes, lord. Why is that? There being only a small amount of water in the cup, it would become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink."

"Now suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into the River Ganges. What do you think? Would the water in the River Ganges become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"No, lord. Why is that? There being a great mass of water in the River Ganges, it would not become salty because of the salt crystal or unfit to drink."

"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual [the first] takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... ay_32.html
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
asahi
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: End of suffering ?

Post by asahi »

Microdose wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:45 pm When siddharta awakened to buddha, he spoke about his path being the end of suffering

Yet he experiences old age, sickness and death

The things he said were suffering

How did the buddha go through these things without suffering
Here is what i understand , if you were to think to follow arahant steps that is good but for beginners they dont know how or where to starts . The Buddha himself found the path by examining how death aging came to be and he found out because of birth . That is the beginning of suffering . But that is not enough to end suffering then he traced further back to the root which is the ignorance . But all of that has to be but put into practice then you will really realise .
So , as a novice if one were to look from arahant view point doesnt means you can do it instantly . Arahant has gone beyond ordinary mentality , their mind are in detached state . Arahant dont feel mental suffering like us but he does have bodily suffering and he needs to endure it when pains rises to extreme degrees .
Peace is more precious than triumph
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mjaviem
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Re: End of suffering ?

Post by mjaviem »

Microdose wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:45 pm ...
How did the buddha go through these things without suffering
By not going through them.

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:15 am... Whilst alive he was free from emotional dukkha. At death, all of it.
Bundokji wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:49 pm ... the associated suffering insignificant when compared to living unexamined life.
...
asahi wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:05 pm ... he does have bodily suffering and he needs to endure it when pains rises to extreme degrees .
All three quotes above are a particular view about the realization of an arahant. But there is another view. The view that an Arahant is free from all dukkha, coarse and subtle, mental and physical. Different views dependent on different understandings I would say.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
Spiny Norman
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Re: End of suffering ?

Post by Spiny Norman »

mjaviem wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:23 pm
Microdose wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:45 pm ...
How did the buddha go through these things without suffering
By not going through them.

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:15 am... Whilst alive he was free from emotional dukkha. At death, all of it.
Bundokji wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:49 pm ... the associated suffering insignificant when compared to living unexamined life.
...
asahi wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:05 pm ... he does have bodily suffering and he needs to endure it when pains rises to extreme degrees .
All three quotes above are a particular view about the realization of an arahant. But there is another view. The view that an Arahant is free from all dukkha, coarse and subtle, mental and physical. Different views dependent on different understandings I would say.
The latter view seems most closely aligned with the second and third Noble Truths, given that the Arahant is free from craving, the cause of suffering.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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