Jhana was easy in buddha time... may be ur undersranding of jhana is ur own imaginationJoe.c wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:03 amEr…. Looks like he is mistaken. If there is No jhana (samma samadhi), then there will be no Nibbana. Just look at MN 52 and many others.
Unless he is referring to fake jhana, but he should be very careful when he explain it. Because jhana (samma samadhi) is part of N8FP.
O btw, jhana (samma samadhi) is difficult even during Buddha time. One may try to practice samma samadhi, but never able to reach and maintain it for 24/7.
Maintaining ekagata is difficult because one needs all faculties to fully developed.
One more thing: if someone say they don’t follow N8FP to reach Nibbana, just reject them. It will be waste of time.
Good luck.
Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
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Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Because they did not over estimate its difficulty
… it’s just calm
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Joe.c wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:03 amEr…. Looks like he is mistaken. If there is No jhana (samma samadhi), then there will be no Nibbana. Just look at MN 52 and many others.
Unless he is referring to fake jhana, but he should be very careful when he explain it. Because jhana (samma samadhi) is part of N8FP.
O btw, jhana (samma samadhi) is difficult even during Buddha time. One may try to practice samma samadhi, but never able to reach and maintain it for 24/7.
Maintaining ekagata is difficult because one needs all faculties to fully developed.
One more thing: if someone say they don’t follow N8FP to reach Nibbana, just reject them. It will be waste of time.
Good luck.
Agree.
In another video, Venerable Premasiri said that when people attain Nibbana they have already crossed over the Jhana but they are not aware of it.
This is why we have to listen to a person (Kalyana Mitta) for a long time to understand exactly what he meant.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
LOL... Clearly you have not understood.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:36 pm Jhana was easy in buddha time... may be ur undersranding of jhana is ur own imagination
If it is easy, every ariya has reached non-returner status at the very least during Buddha time. Also, Buddha will never emphasize this sentence in many Sutta
o Btw, Real jhana (Samma Samadhi) is not just sit only. It is can be proven here and now.Etāni, bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha, bhikkhave, mā pamādattha; mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuvattha. Ayaṁ vo amhākaṁ anusāsanī”ti.
Good luck to you.
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Well...Better checked it and prove it again and again. Not just said one has crossed over the jhana, because jhana is still needed up until end of life.SarathW wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:05 pm
Agree.
In another video, Venerable Premasiri said that when people attain Nibbana they have already crossed over the Jhana but they are not aware of it.
This is why we have to listen to a person (Kalyana Mitta) for a long time to understand exactly what he meant.
Buddha said it in many sutta. He also dwelled in higher jhana from time to time even after awakening.
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Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Greetings,
Proposition: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
As such, I see nothing in the discourses to substantiate the proposition.
Metta,
Paul.
Proposition: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
However, that was prior to the arising of the Buddha's dispensation... when there was no Buddha or Sangha or discourses to learn Right View from.
As such, I see nothing in the discourses to substantiate the proposition.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Yes Buddha attained Jhana before his enlightenment.Joe.c wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:11 pmWell...Better checked it and prove it again and again. Not just said one has crossed over the jhana, because jhana is still needed up until end of life.SarathW wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:05 pm
Agree.
In another video, Venerable Premasiri said that when people attain Nibbana they have already crossed over the Jhana but they are not aware of it.
This is why we have to listen to a person (Kalyana Mitta) for a long time to understand exactly what he meant.
Buddha said it in many sutta. He also dwelled in higher jhana from time to time even after awakening.
But there are many Arahants who does not know how to enter Jhana even though they have crossed over it when they attain Nibbana.
It is like you are going from Italy to london on plane. You have to pass many countries in europe but you don't know that.
This is how Venarable Premasiri explain it.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Perhaps "Million times" (harder than Jhana) is a bit of an exaggeration.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:44 pm Greetings,
Proposition: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
However, that was prior to the arising of the Buddha's dispensation... when there was no Buddha or Sangha or discourses to learn Right View from.
As such, I see nothing in the discourses to substantiate the proposition.
Metta,
Paul.
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Those jhana(s) before his awakening are micha samadhi. Only lead to rebirth in higher realms.
But when he reached and after his awakening, he dwelled in jhana with anapanasati. See SN 54.11 and many more.
SN 54.11 wrote:…For those mendicants who are perfected—who have ended the defilements, completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their own goal, utterly ended the fetters of rebirth, and are rightly freed through enlightenment—the development and cultivation of immersion due to mindfulness of breathing leads to blissful meditation in the present life, and to mindfulness and awareness.
For if anything should be rightly called ‘the meditation of a noble one’, or else ‘the meditation of a Brahmā’, or else ‘the meditation of a realized one’, it’s samadhi due to anapanasati.”
Sorry, this sounds like someone just stumble upon without realizing the path. I think it is impossible. Anyone who walk the path will know where they are at in N8FP.you wrote:But there are many Arahants who does not know how to enter Jhana even though they have crossed over it when they attain Nibbana.
One can not suddenly become an arahant without entering the stream first.
I would say he is confused. This may lead to someone will say N8FP is not needed, because one can stumble without knowing. The path is clear with objective, then the fruit is realized at each level. Realizing fruit is not easy tasks, because one needs to continue maintain all the goods that have been developed before. This work is 24/7 job.you wrote: It is like you are going from Italy to london on plane. You have to pass many countries in europe but you don't know that.
This is how Venarable Premasiri explain it.
I have seen many outsiders say this kind of things like one of the poster here (peterc86), or J. Krishnamurthy, etc. Usually, this happen because they are confused. If you analyze their life, then you will know that they are confused indeed.
Anyway, others may say something different here. But i would recommend you analyze your own life experience.
Have i fully known the N8FP? have i ended any dukkhas here and now? Do i still attach to my job, family, wife, money, house, etc?
As always, this path can be proven again and again as long as one follows the exact path of N8FP.
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Hi Joe
I suggest you read the Great Jhana Debate.
I am not going to go there.
viewtopic.php?p=619946&hilit=Great+Jhana+debate#p619946
Or read "Critical anaylysis of Jhana" by Bhante Gunaratna.
I suggest you read the Great Jhana Debate.
I am not going to go there.
viewtopic.php?p=619946&hilit=Great+Jhana+debate#p619946
Or read "Critical anaylysis of Jhana" by Bhante Gunaratna.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
If you equate jhana with samma samadhi then you cannot understand it .
No bashing No gossiping
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
I read those. but i lose interest after I found there is no practical meaning/usage. Almost all only state their opinion based on theory.SarathW wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:06 am Hi Joe
I suggest you read the Great Jhana Debate.
I am not going to go there.
viewtopic.php?p=619946&hilit=Great+Jhana+debate#p619946
Or read "Critical anaylysis of Jhana" by Bhante Gunaratna.
I’m only interested when one say samma samadhi/sati can be maintained for 24hours /7days (daily life) and here is how they do it. Then, I will go talk and check them out whether it is true or not.
Probably tested them out personally. See if it is a fake jhana or real jhana.
Real jhana (samma samadhi) can withstand asava(s) especially kamasava. This can be checked personally.
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Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self. Were consciousness self, then this consciousness would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'
And since consciousness is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'
Anatta-lakkhana Sutta: The Discourse on the Not-self Characteristic
Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
Lol.. an outsider wants to use Sutta.cappuccino wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:17 pm
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self. Were consciousness self, then this consciousness would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'
And since consciousness is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'
Anatta-lakkhana Sutta: The Discourse on the Not-self Characteristic
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Re: Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?
You are laughing but harming yourself