EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
wenjaforever
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by wenjaforever »

DNS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:20 pmI'm not saying I'm perfect, but I don't go around regularly checking people out to see if I'm superior or inferior to them. What would be the point of that?

Did you give up the right to the throne? Or are you referring to the Buddha?
So you saying you're superior to me because you don't judge people around and not humiliate them in front of everyone? Thank you I think I just got enlightened by your wisdom.

No I was referring to bhadiya kaligodha.
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by DNS »

wenjaforever wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:24 pm
DNS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:20 pmI'm not saying I'm perfect, but I don't go around regularly checking people out to see if I'm superior or inferior to them. What would be the point of that?

Did you give up the right to the throne? Or are you referring to the Buddha?
So you saying you're superior to me because you don't judge people around and not humiliate them in front of everyone? Thank you I think I just got enlightened by your wisdom.
Right on time, I knew that train was coming. :tongue:

It's called the Paradox of tolerance where it is noted it is best to be intolerant of the intolerant, otherwise intolerance wins.

And no, I never mentioned anything about being superior to you. I don't even know you.

:focus:
wenjaforever
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by wenjaforever »

DNS wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:28 pmRight on time, I knew that train was coming. :tongue:

It's called the Paradox of intolerance where it is noted it is best to be intolerant of the intolerant, otherwise intolerance wins.

And no, I never mentioned anything about being superior to you. I don't even know you.

:focus:
Yeah it's astounding how people always compare to the Buddha himself. It's like a billion miles away. Do people know how rare a Buddha is? There are even entire kalpas without the presence of a single Buddha called Sunna kalpa.
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
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analysis
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by analysis »

It is mentioned that there are two types of words in the Suttas.
Nita attha and Neyya Attha.

In nitattha, what the word says is the meaning of it.
But in neyyattha, the meaning of the word is to be derived.

So I guess the neyyatthas are differently interpreted in EBT movement than Classical.
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by auto »

frank k wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:33 pm ⛔ It absolutely never means the 5 senses of the body are shut off, that one has entered an arupa/formless attainment as late Theravada Abhidhamma such as Vism. claims (in contradiction to EBT and even early Abhidhamma).
Why do you think Theravada abhidhamma means sense are off in jhana? whatever the state is, it is the sense organ object what prompts it, it is the reason the life-continuum is arrested. In case of jhana it is upacara nimitta what arrests the life-continuum.

Whether sense are off or not depends on what you mean by the nimitta.
In case of vimuttimagga, nimitta is the reason for the occuring akusala dhamma.
vimuttimagga pdf142 wrote:What is the meaning of sign?
The meaning of (conditioning) cause is the meaning of sign. It is even
as the Buddha taught the bhikkhus: [414] "All evil demeritorious states occur
depending on a sign".1 This is the meaning of conditioning cause. And
again, it is said that the meaning of wisdom is the meaning of the sign. The
Buddha has declared: "With trained perception one should forsake".2 This
is called wisdom. And again, it is said that the meaning of image is the meaning
of the sign. It is like the thought a man has on seeing the reflection of his
own face and image. The after-image is obvious.
meaning(wisdom) of the image is 'giving up'. Giving up akusala dhamma.
https://suttacentral.net/mn43/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:“What is the purpose of wisdom?”
“Paññā panāvuso, kimatthiyā”ti?

“The purpose of wisdom is direct knowledge, complete understanding, and giving up.”
“Paññā kho, āvuso, abhiññatthā pariññatthā pahānatthā”ti.
i see you tell it is not sense off,
frank k wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:33 pmconclusion: vimt., which is based on canonical abhdhamma, also agrees with EBT and does not contradict it. No mention of "5 body senses shut off" here.
To me its funny that you, frankk claim there are sense off in arupa concentration. Sound like a compromise.
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by Eko Care »

analysis wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:24 pm It is mentioned that there are two types of words in the Suttas.
Nita attha and Neyya Attha.

In nitattha, what the word says is the meaning of it.
But in neyyattha, the meaning of the word is to be derived.

So I guess the neyyatthas are differently interpreted in EBT movement than Classical.
Not only those, but also there are two types of Suttas called Sappadesa and Nippadesa.
Sappadesa suttas only describes a part of a whole. If one consider the part as the whole, he is wrong.

If one grasp the part as the whole, even after someone said it, he can be said as immature person.
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Radix
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by Radix »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:15 am This is from the thread: Heretic teaching of Ajahn Sumedho

During a discussion about the unorthox views of Thai Forest Tradition, I noticed the following behavior of Sutta/EBT/Attanomati-vadins:
SarathW wrote:
DNS wrote: The Ajahn refers to a "permanent consciousness" which certainly is unorthodox, contrary to the Classical Theravada. Typically such unorthodox views refer to a permanent citta, since citta is not listed as one of the aggregates (Ajahns Boowa and Mun and perhaps some others).

However, consciousness is listed as one of the aggregates (viññāna) and the idea of it being permanent is refuted in MN 38 Sati, the fisherman's son.
https://suttacentral.net/mn38/en/sujato

Around the mid point of the video he refers to a universal consciousness, also at odds with the Classical view.

It may even be a more extreme view than the Pudgalavada school, since the Pudgalavada refers to something of an impermanent self, not a permanent one.
Thank you, David. I did not expect such overwhelming support for my topic.
How can being in an unorthodox position, one use the orthodox position to invalidate another unorthodox position.
DNS wrote: The Ajahn refers to a "permanent consciousness" which certainly is unorthodox, contrary to the Classical Theravada.
So his subconscious knows that orthodox Theravada is the true one.
DNS wrote: It may even be a more extreme view than the Pudgalavada school, since the Pudgalavada refers to something of an impermanent self, not a permanent one.
Ok, it is a more extreme view >>but>> with reference to which position?

How can being in an unorthodox position, one use the orthodox position to invalidate another unorthodox position?

This is an evidence for the fact that "EBT-people don't have a base."
Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:08 pmIt is about "Questioning David's use of orthodoxy as a base in order to refute Sumedho's views"
It's not yet an invalidation, nor a refutation yet. It's merely a description.

If someone were to say,
The Ajahn refers to a "permanent consciousness" which certainly is unorthodox, contrary to the Classical Theravada, and therefore, the ajahn is wrong.
then that would be an invalidation, and what you say applied. Unless that last clause ("and therefore, x is wrong") is added, we can't just assume that it's there.
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Radix
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by Radix »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:53 pmIn all honesty this is just a big fuss over nothing.
It's about the assumptions people take for granted, without ever clarifying whether those assumptions are warranted or not. It's very common, sadly ironic for a Buddhist forum.

One person says "X" and the other person hears "X + Y". Often without ever spelling out what the Y is, instead just taking it for granted.
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Re: EBT-People Don't Have a Base. (An Evidence)

Post by Gwi II »

Comparing EBT and Theravādin is like comparing
"Wahhabi Islam" and "Sunni Islam (Orthodox)".

Simple explanation: Wahhabism (a sect within Islam), THEY
FOCUS ON THE SCRIPTURE and Hadith (commentary books
of Muslims), GOOD! HOWEVER, THEIR INTERPRETATIONS ARE
OFTEN IN THE WRONG DIRECTION (TOO DOGMATIC).

"The basic Wahhabi doctrine is the textual practice of
The Qur'an and Hadist without any takwil (interpretation)
and qiyas (analogy)
. On that basis, Wahhabis always reject
any form of contextualization of the Islamic religion. Coz
of that, Wahhabis are always anti-civilization," said PBNU's
Katib Aam Rais Syuriah KH Yahya Cholil Staquf
.



From the above, those who are intelligent can already
compare Theravādin with EBT (which is considered pure
[by nontheravādins], but the basis is indeed unclear).

Theravādin has got the OFFICIAL CAP OF
KATHĀVATTHU, NOT EBT! AGAIN, NOT EBT!


Without KATHĀVATTHU, we will not be able to know
which one is pure/authentic/original/orthodox!
🙏


Edit: I've copied this (my) statement in Word, anticipating it.
:quote:
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
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