Risk of taking vaccine jab

[Kumara]

[thepea]

Anybody can post anything on YouTube.

Be sure to follow the links to examine the author's credentials.

Be honest with yourself and on guard for agreeing with what you want to hear verses what a critical examination might reveal the facts to be.

No.... you can’t post anything on YouTube.
You cannot mention anything about vaccines in a negative way or it is considered harmful, which could spark vaccine hesitancy.

I’m glad the truth is coming to light about this social experiment upon the weak minded.

[cappuccino]

I’m glad the truth is coming to light

They finally admit there is an afterlife?

[thepea]

https://bffct.org/bff/vaccine-mandate-statement/

[thepea]

Can we explore the Covid threat and how this attacked the infrastructure of both Buddhist temples and dhamma centres globally?
There is the story of Ajahn Chah’s forest monestery being attacked by an army of red ants. Due to this threat AC authorized the killing of these ants so monastic life could continue normally. He breached the first precept to save the monestery.
Fast forward to this Covid threat and governments have forced monesteries and global dhamma centres to close their doors unless these health mandates are obeyed.
If we look at the N8FP it is the personal practice of liberating all sankharas(past life regressions) within ones universe of experience. As a result of this practice metta to others is developed.
If this is truly the middle path both the individual choice and the community good must be respected equally. All of this must be balanced with the precepts being observed.
If we have a group of individuals who are for whatever personal moral reason against following these orders they must be considered. You cannot sweep these individuals under the rug or simply ignore them because they represent the minority view. This is segregation or division of the sangha.
At a certain point like the great tree in the forest we must allow these global infrastructures to collapse over sacrificing morality.
Is it acceptable to break precepts to save the infrastructure of dhamma centres?
We cannot force a woman into unwanted intercourse to keep her job, this is a breach of the fourth precept, so why is it acceptable to force the injection of a vaccine to be able to visit a monestary or meditate in a dhamma centre?

[Ceisiwr]

We cannot force a woman into unwanted intercourse to keep her job, this is a breach of the fourth precept, so why is it acceptable to force the injection of a vaccine to be able to visit a monestary or meditate in a dhamma centre?

Freedom of association. People have the right to associate with whomever they want, or to not associate with whomever they want and you have the right to have the vaccine and associate with them, or to not have it and not associate with them. You don't though have the right to force others to associate with you.

[thepea]

We cannot force a woman into unwanted intercourse to keep her job, this is a breach of the fourth precept, so why is it acceptable to force the injection of a vaccine to be able to visit a monestary or meditate in a dhamma centre?

Freedom of association. People have the right to associate with whomever they want, or to not associate with whomever they want and you have the right to have the vaccine and associate with them, or to not have it and not associate with them. You don't though have the right to force others to associate with you.

But a monestery or dhamma centre is open to the public.
I’ve never had to show papers to enter a monestery.
On Sunday’s it was open meditation anyone can walk in off the street and there was no control over a mass murderer entering the facility. Everyone was treated based on their actions after entering(just like the local grocery store). If you disrupted the atmosphere you may be asked to stop or if one could not they would be asked to leave.
There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime in order to supersede ones freedom of anonymity. According to most free society laws.
Monesteries and global meditation centres have breached these morals of society let alone the precepts.
Blatant Segregation is simply not allowed it’s a division of the sangha.
If you have fear in your heart of a fellow sangha member what gives you the right to segregate this member when there is no proof of them being a threat? This is paranoia.
If your vaccine protects you, why are you afraid of a sangha member?

[Ceisiwr]

But a monestery or dhamma centre is open to the public.
I’ve never had to show papers to enter a monestery.
On Sunday’s it was open meditation anyone can walk in off the street and there was no control over a mass murderer entering the facility. Everyone was treated based on their actions after entering(just like the local grocery store). If you disrupted the atmosphere you may be asked to stop or if one could not they would be asked to leave.
There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime in order to supersede ones freedom of anonymity. According to most free society laws.
Monesteries and global meditation centres have breached these morals of society let alone the precepts.
Blatant Segregation is simply not allowed it’s a division of the sangha.
If you have fear in your heart of a fellow sangha member what gives you the right to segregate this member when there is no proof of them being a threat? This is paranoia.
If your vaccine protects you, why are you afraid of a sangha member?

My local monastery is open to the public, but they also have a dress code. Libraries are also open to the public, but they also have a dress code and ask for no loud music to be played. Every organisation or association will have rules about who can join. If a book club or a Dhamma centre doesn't want unvaccinated people to join them, that is their right. They don't even have to give a reason for it. Of course, this is talking strictly in terms of classical liberal Rights. Modern Equality legislation makes things a bit more nuanced.

[thepea]

But a monestery or dhamma centre is open to the public.
I’ve never had to show papers to enter a monestery.
On Sunday’s it was open meditation anyone can walk in off the street and there was no control over a mass murderer entering the facility. Everyone was treated based on their actions after entering(just like the local grocery store). If you disrupted the atmosphere you may be asked to stop or if one could not they would be asked to leave.
There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime in order to supersede ones freedom of anonymity. According to most free society laws.
Monesteries and global meditation centres have breached these morals of society let alone the precepts.
Blatant Segregation is simply not allowed it’s a division of the sangha.
If you have fear in your heart of a fellow sangha member what gives you the right to segregate this member when there is no proof of them being a threat? This is paranoia.
If your vaccine protects you, why are you afraid of a sangha member?

My local monastery is open to the public, but they also have a dress code. Libraries are also open to the public, but they also have a dress code and ask for no loud music to be played. Every organisation or association will have rules about who can join. If a book club or a Dhamma centre doesn't want unvaccinated people to join them, that is their right. They don't even have to give a reason for it. Of course, this is talking strictly in terms of classical liberal Rights. Modern Equality legislation makes things a bit more nuanced.

Is there a sutta reference to back up your theory of dhamma centres being able to segregate the sangha?
So I’m an old student or a monastic residing at a wat and new policy can be created saying if I don’t forcibly inject something into my body I’m segregated and must disrobe?

What about medical privacy and anonymity laws?
I’ve never had to show ID papers to purchase oranges.

If you have had your vaccine what are you so scared of?

[Ceisiwr]

Is there a sutta reference to back up your theory of dhamma centres being able to segregate the sangha?
So I’m an old student or a monastic residing at a wat and new policy can be created saying if I don’t forcibly inject something into my body I’m segregated and must disrobe?

What about medical privacy and anonymity laws?
I’ve never had to show ID papers to purchase oranges.

If you have had your vaccine what are you so scared of?

I'm not all that good with the Vinaya, so I can't really answer. My reply to you was based on secular politics. People are free to associate or not with whomever they like, in free societies. I don't really know where you are going with privacy & anonymity laws. On ID, there is a chain of wholesalers open to both business and the public in the U.K. that is membership based. That would require ID to buy oranges. On vaccines, I've had 4 of them now in part because of my job and also to protect my health. I have a medical condition that puts me at slighter higher risk of developing complications, if I catch COVID.

[Sam Vara]

Moderator note: Ceisiwr's post above is welcome, as it moves back to the purpose of this thread - a discussion of the risk of taking the vaccine jab. It's not about the rights and wrongs of national or organisational policies or protocols regarding vaccines. That's political, and off-topic posts will be not be allowed.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[cappuccino]

If you have had your vaccine what are you so scared of?

Being cautious is a virtue

[Noble Sangha]

I just found this thread . . . It's actually right up my alley . . .

I would like to ask others for their views and opinions.

If one were to mention / say some things that could lead others to more stress / worries / distress / fear / troubles / etc . . . Especially if in the end, nothing could be done about it, should it be mentioned to others?

For example (just an example everyone, just an example . . . ) we're all lining up to enter a slaughter house, let's say over 90% of the people in line don't know that they're in line to enter the slaughter house and a few knows, should those few mention this to the other 90% that doesn't know, especially if even knowing about it doesn't exempt one from having to enter the slaughter house sooner or later?

Even if finds out / knows and escapes from the slaughter house, but their life will still be destroy in one way or another, is it better to keep others that doesn't know in the dark so that they can live out the rest of their life as free from stress / worries / distress / fear / troubles / etc. . . as much as possible? Keeping them ignorant of worldly (mundane) affairs.

What I just mentioned is very superficial, when the dhamma is applied to what I just mentioned / used as an example, it takes things to a whole new level.

Let's say, I can post so much materials / information on this topic, that there would almost be no end to it . . . To me, it's very disheartening / depressing / frustrating / discouraging and so on . . . (but not really since I'm long past this point . . .) that the majority can not / doesn't even critical think for themselves these days . . .

[thepea]

If you have had your vaccine what are you so scared of?

Being cautious is a virtue

Cautious is one thing, fearful to be around others to the point of segregating them does not seem to be the middle way.

[Scabrella]

Being cautious is a virtue

Hello. Taking a weak/ineffective vaccine that makes the problem worse (by creating resistant variants) is not a virtue. Established science was proven to be correct (and the new propaganda was proven to be false).