Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
Mangaka
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:57 am

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Mangaka »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:29 pm In Buddhism, I know if a person has bad thought, this can become karma. I also read some stories of buddha that if there is a certain person has ill thought about buddha, he certainly falls to the hell. It makes me worried a a lot even thought these thought, I do not want to think of. they appears like a habit after a long time with obsess. I am not superstitious but since I worried, I was getting quite superstitious. I give some advice to myself that, ignore them, gradually i will forget them. But i always live in obsess.
Hi, correct me if I'm wrong.. Intentional bad thoughts (evil thoughts, ill will etc.) against Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha produce bad kamma as against any being. Althou these thoughts against Triple Gem are worse, but.. look at Angulimāla or Devadatta for example. Thoughts alone will not send you inevitably to hell in next existence (at least if it isn't in time of death -> last thoughts) So it is possible to exceed accumulated bad kamma by skilfull deeds (good kamma).
Do I understand correctly?
Where did you find that story you mentioned?
absolute
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by absolute »

Hello there, a fellow OCD/Scrupulosity sufferer.
I used to have this kind of bad thoughts about Buddha or Buddhist deities OCD (Mahayana side).
In my experience, the only thing that worked was just time. When you search for any more reassurance that you're not creating bad karma/kamma itself won't alleviate the problem, but just focus on other stuff. And if such thoughts occur again, then just let it be, don't try to suppress it by counter thoughts etc because it will exhaust you and make you worry more.
In Buddhism everything is about intention and since your bad thoughts are due to OCD and not intentional, I believe it doesn't cause bad kamma.
And again I used to have this form of OCD and as you can see I don't have such type of OCD anymore. So time can heal you. But my OCD is still there, but you know it is about other things as OCD attacks only things you are focusing on at the time.
See my a few years ago post and realize that there are others too. So, don't believe what OCD tell you.
May our OCD be diminished or even cured.
viewtopic.php?p=433066#p433066
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by confusedlayman »

First u cant have bad thoughts on buddha because you cant imagine him as he was in his physical body.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
User avatar
Johann
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Johann »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:18 am First u cant have bad thoughts on buddha because you cant imagine him as he was in his physical body.
It's because having wrong ideas about the Sublime Buddha, that most bear not releasing thoughts and some even bad thoughts at first place, good householder? So good to get him, the Arahat, well known!

Objecting the Sublime Buddha in form, feeling, perception, formations consciousness, making it as own, is the very cause of not liberation or even bad intentions, deeds.

Only one who as arrived at the Dhamma would regard the Sublime Buddha right, takes his goodness for good and release, got proper relatated.
Last edited by Johann on Sun Sep 04, 2022 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by confusedlayman »

Johann wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 6:18 am
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:18 am First u cant have bad thoughts on buddha because you cant imagine him as he was in his physical body.
It's because having wrong ideas about the Sublime Buddha, that most bear not releasing thoughts and some even bad thoughts at first place, good householder? So good to get him, the Arahat, well known!

Objecting the Sublime Buddha in form, feeling, perception, formations consciousness, making it as own, is the very cause of not liberation or even bad intentions, deeds.

Only one who as arrived at the Dhamma would regard the Sublime Buddha right, takes his goodness for good and release, got proper relatated.
agree but how it is possible to get bad thoughts when knowing good charecter of buddha as we can know him only what action he did but no one saw his physical appearence now. Some people might have doubt when they see someone but their doubts vanish when they hear their views so when buddha views are only present to our age, what does having bad thoughts about buddha means?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
User avatar
Johann
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Johann »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:01 pm
Johann wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 6:18 am
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:18 am First u cant have bad thoughts on buddha because you cant imagine him as he was in his physical body.
It's because having wrong ideas about the Sublime Buddha, that most bear not releasing thoughts and some even bad thoughts at first place, good householder? So good to get him, the Arahat, well known!

Objecting the Sublime Buddha in form, feeling, perception, formations consciousness, making it as own, is the very cause of not liberation or even bad intentions, deeds.

Only one who as arrived at the Dhamma would regard the Sublime Buddha right, takes his goodness for good and release, got proper relatated.
agree but how it is possible to get bad thoughts when knowing good charecter of buddha as we can know him only what action he did but no one saw his physical appearence now. Some people might have doubt when they see someone but their doubts vanish when they hear their views so when buddha views are only present to our age, what does having bad thoughts about buddha means?
One who "sees" the Dhamma, "sees" the Buddha, good householder. Seeing the Arahat, one sees the Dhamma.

It's because common people don't see the Dhamma, that they don't see the Buddha, and because regarding the aggregate, are able to cause harm. Or harming what's not the Buddha, they might think that having done wrong toward him, toward the Dhamma.

There is a long Sutta in the Majjimanikaya, where the Buddha counts a long list of wrong thoughts, wrong speech, disregarding him, holding wrong views about him, and it's effects.

Both, also regarding a non-fault as fault, leads downwardly.

For example there are people who think that if they accidentally had broken a Buddha image, they harmed the Buddha. It's because of wrong views, not knowing fault and non-fault, slight, gave fault, that people head downwardly even "just" wrong thought.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by confusedlayman »

What is harming buddha means?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Pasindu
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:14 am

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Pasindu »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm Dear everyone, I am not an native english speaker, so I may have some problems of explaining.
Please help me. I respect buddha very much and i have loved Buddhism since i was around ten years old. I often visit pagoda with all of my respect.
However, I do not know why it always appears unintentional bad thoughts about buddha in my mind when i pray or I look at buddha statue. I try to kill all of these bad thoughts but i can not. It appears in my mind every hour and everyday and makes me obsessed a lot. please give my some advice. Would I fall to the hell because of these bad thoughts, is it karma? I am so worried. I do really do not want to think of it. thank you all
Hi! It could be because you have a habbit of thinking thoughts towards other people oftenly, So even when it comes to Buddha(someone you respect), your mind may be acting out of the same impulse.

At any rate, I would avoid a meditation like Buddanussathi for now, If above explanation fits you, It would be better to practice good thoughts on others, If you often feel lust, Do asuba/skeleton meditation, if you often feel anger, do loving kindness meditation. And Buddha has recommended anapanasathi meditation to anyone whose thoughts are wondering too out of control. Good luck!
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Modus.Ponens »

pvthanh98 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm Dear everyone, I am not an native english speaker, so I may have some problems of explaining.
Please help me. I respect buddha very much and i have loved Buddhism since i was around ten years old. I often visit pagoda with all of my respect.
However, I do not know why it always appears unintentional bad thoughts about buddha in my mind when i pray or I look at buddha statue. I try to kill all of these bad thoughts but i can not. It appears in my mind every hour and everyday and makes me obsessed a lot. please give my some advice. Would I fall to the hell because of these bad thoughts, is it karma? I am so worried. I do really do not want to think of it. thank you all
It is not karma, you don't need to worry. Karma needs intention. And your intention is to respect the Buddha.

Think of it like this. If you tell yourself "I cannot think of a yellow elephant" the first thing the mind will do is picture a yellow elephant. It isn't voluntary, it's just something that happens unintentionally. In the same way, if you think to yourself "I cannot think bad things about the Buddha", the first thing the mind will do is to come up with an example of a bad thought about the Buddha. Notice that your intention in this process is to respect the Buddha, it's just that you can also have involuntary thoughts. And the typical thing that happens when you forbid yourself from having a specific kind of thought is that you will have that thought, but your intention is not behind it. So let it go. Thoughts arise and fade, let them be as they are. It's much better than try to fight them.

I've struggled with this when I was younger. I was under a lot of stress at the time. If you can reduce the stress in your life that will probably help. If you're consuming drugs like I was at the time, then it's a good idea to drop them. If it persists then it might be a good idea to see a doctor or psychologist. But, regardless, the mind will have pleasant and unpleasant thoughts, no matter if your intention is behind them or not. It's just how the mind works. So you don't need to fret about it, just let the thoughts be as they are, rising and fading.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Modus.Ponens »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:57 pm It's kamma. Don't get sad for that. The most important thing is what you can do in the present with this old kamma.
My practical solutions: ignoring, thinking the opposite of the thought.
If you're talking about thoughts of ill-will, I recommend meditating on the brahmaviharas. Metta in particular. Metta is really effective against ill-will. Think about when you are with a headache and take a medicine. Metta is the medicine for ill-will.

Bhante Vimalaramsi is one the main proponents of metta of our time. He really emphasizes the importance of metta. It's the only meditation I saw him teach.
I recommend following his instructions. The idea of smiling in meditation may sound ridiculous at first but give it a chance and you'll know why it's important. Good luck.

It's not karma. Karma needs intention.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
Rbf
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:48 pm

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Rbf »

pvthanh98 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:34 am I experienced bad things about my unintentional thoughts about buddha. It may be because of my mind, stress, or OCD. A long time facing this problem, I received lots of advice from my family members and priests. I want to tell someone who have the same problem with me my stories so that they can get through it. When I was in bad thoughts, I always wanted to get out of them, the power of me is always at the top of everything to try to get out of the thoughts. However, the things what happened was not like I had hoped before. I found out mentality and got that When we try to get out of a thought, we will never get successful. For example: You can follow me like this: Let close your eyes for ten seconds and not think about any elephants. Like a natural thing ever, 80 -> 90%, we always think about the elephants, and this is the same with my case.
Some days, I knew that I cannot get out of my thoughts in the way that I was doing. I let all of my thoughts appear in my mind without fear, attention and my care. For long time, The thoughts were get out of my mind in natural ways that I did not recognize (it may be because I do not care).
Thoughts can cause karma, yes if you want them, and you may nearly do what you thought. However, if you know that the thoughts are not you, you think about that unintentionally, you will not get any karma.
Any way, I should think positively. Everything will be better.
Now I work, live normally. Importantly, I am happy.
I hope if someone who have the same problems with me can get through of this easier than me.
Hi , you said you read stories about the bad thought leading to hell, where did you read that ? I cannot find
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Ontheway »

OP should learn and properly practice Buddhanussati. Follow Visuddhimagga's part on Reflection on Buddha's virtues.


Lord Buddha's compassion is boundless.
z_pic350 (20).jpg
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
rybka3
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:49 am

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by rybka3 »

Hello friend. Fellow Vietnamese here.

I think it's not good to keep thinking about thoughts that HAVE ARISEN. It's the past. Nothing you can do about it. Regret makes you suffer. It also makes it hard for you to meditate.
Solution:
1. Contemplate these thoughts a bit. Refer to MN 19 and MN 20 for example.
2. They maybe remnants of the past - past sankharas. They may pop up even tho you don't hate the Buddha at all - they are kinda "fake" evil thoughts. It's probably better to ignore them, not dwelling on them and make things worse.
Reddmlc2006
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:30 am

Re: Unintentional bad thoughts about Buddha

Post by Reddmlc2006 »

I know not deliberately think bad about buddha will not make karma but how do i know i delineratle think or not?
Post Reply