How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

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Johann
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Johann »

Joe.c wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:00 am
Johann wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:25 am Atma (my person) has left since longer, good householder. If the stated limits what good householder thinks as block of his ideas, he's free to not take on them.
Dude, there is no atma when one has entered the stream. Let alone the beings in Pure abodes. What are you talking about?
"Atma" (I) is an old way to address oneself, in a third person way, and still in use here when an ascetic speaks with one not left home. Anapana helps ending windmill fights, good householder.

Once found firm faith or left home in seek for such, Atma could maybe point to ways to ease mind-fomations deep ensnared in kaya. For now, may he hold on what gives him security.
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Noble Sangha wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:51 pm #1. The majority of Buddhist practitioners are aware / have been exposed to the Akusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada cycle, but at the same time they have not been taught or exposed to the other P.S. cycles. What about you? Are you aware of the other P.S. cycles besides the Akusala-Mula?

I am aware that it is taught in both a forward and reverse order, coinciding with either the perpetuation or the ending of the cycle of birth and death respectively.
Noble Sangha wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:51 pm
#2. It's widely taught and pretty much all current Buddhist practitioners believed that anapanasati is breath meditation. But what if anapansati is not breath meditation? Do you have an open mind about such a possibility?
Anapanasati can be translated as 'mindfulness with the in-out breath'.
Likewise the 16 steps of anapanasati all mention 'breathing in' and 'breathing out' to accompany the various stages.
If you have an alternative view or interpretation however for why you don't think 'breath meditation' is the most appropriate designation for the practice or one that makes most sense to you, then you can kindly share it.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein the mind ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:48 am
Anapanasati can be translated as 'mindfulness with the in-out breath
What would mindfulness with death look like?
“In the same way, great king, when a bhikkhu sees that these five hindrances are unabandoned within himself, he regards that as a debt, as a sickness, as confinement in prison, as slavery, as a desert road.

“But when he sees that these five hindrances have been abandoned within himself, he regards that as freedom from debt, as good health, as release from prison, as freedom from slavery, as a place of safety.”


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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 pm
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:48 am
Anapanasati can be translated as 'mindfulness with the in-out breath
What would mindfulness with death look like?
There can be variations.
In one of it's purest forms it involves contemplating the subject whilst sitting next to a corpse, and comparing the decomposing body with ones own body and letting it sink in that it is of the same nature and will inevitably share the same fate, as will every embodied beings body.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein the mind ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by mjaviem »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 pm What would mindfulness with death look like?
Ok. Then perhaps it's better to say "breathing mindfulness" and "death mindfulness" leaving room to different views about it if my english is right. Anyway the pali doesn't use "of" nor "with", right?
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by mjaviem »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 pm ... contemplating the subject whilst sitting next to a corpse, and comparing the decomposing body with ones own body and letting it sink in that it is of the same nature and will inevitably share the same fate, as will every embodied beings body.
That's not mindfulness of death. That's perception of death.
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 pm
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:48 am
Anapanasati can be translated as 'mindfulness with the in-out breath
What would mindfulness with death look like?
There can be variations.
In one of it's purest forms it involves contemplating the subject whilst sitting next to a corpse, and comparing the decomposing body with ones own body and letting it sink in that it is of the same nature and will inevitably share the same fate, as will every embodied beings body.
I was questioning more the translation you proposed. In Maraṇasati one is not "mindful with death", which would read as being mindful whilst dying or dead. Rather one bears the idea of death in mind (sati). I would read ānāpānasati in the same manner. You are of course aware of other things whilst practicing ānāpānasati. Since it fulfils satipaṭṭhāna you are aware of an aspect of the body which, in this case, is the breath. You are also mindfully aware of your feelings, be the worldly or otherworldly, your state of mind, be it distracted or not, expansive or not, and mental qualities such to the presence or absence of the hindrances or awakening factors.
“In the same way, great king, when a bhikkhu sees that these five hindrances are unabandoned within himself, he regards that as a debt, as a sickness, as confinement in prison, as slavery, as a desert road.

“But when he sees that these five hindrances have been abandoned within himself, he regards that as freedom from debt, as good health, as release from prison, as freedom from slavery, as a place of safety.”


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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Ceisiwr »

mjaviem wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:10 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 pm What would mindfulness with death look like?
Ok. Then perhaps it's better to say "breathing mindfulness" and "death mindfulness" leaving room to different views about it if my english is right. Anyway the pali doesn't use "of" nor "with", right?
I think "of" or "with" would be shown by an inflection instead, but I could be wrong. English does have extra separate clarificatory words than Pāli, so when translating a translator will have to try and fill in the gaps to make it intelligible in English.
“In the same way, great king, when a bhikkhu sees that these five hindrances are unabandoned within himself, he regards that as a debt, as a sickness, as confinement in prison, as slavery, as a desert road.

“But when he sees that these five hindrances have been abandoned within himself, he regards that as freedom from debt, as good health, as release from prison, as freedom from slavery, as a place of safety.”


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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Noble Sangha wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:42 am
I'll definitely point out some resources by the time I stop posting in this thread where one can scrutinize and come to their own conclusions. I'm just waiting mostly for the op's response. Even though I mentioned anapansati is not breath meditation, “breathing” can have a “minor” role, but not the emphasis that’s being taught or being placed on it these days.
Well, it would be nice to know just why you think others are misunderstanding things.
- Ceisiwr if I may ask you something . . .

Can anariya’s or yogis reach the anenja state (4th jhana)? Or another way this question can be asked, did the teachers of the Ascetic Gotama (before the Buddha became enlightened) attained / reach the anenja state or the 4th jhana?
Yes. You can't enter the formless without having an immovable body and mind, which means Āḷāra Kālāma & Uddaka Rāmaputta had a highly developed level of equanimity. We are told in the suttas that other ascetics also achieved the 4th Jhāna. On a related note, I think there can be some debate as to if you need to have mastered the 4th Jhāna in order to enter the formless.
“In the same way, great king, when a bhikkhu sees that these five hindrances are unabandoned within himself, he regards that as a debt, as a sickness, as confinement in prison, as slavery, as a desert road.

“But when he sees that these five hindrances have been abandoned within himself, he regards that as freedom from debt, as good health, as release from prison, as freedom from slavery, as a place of safety.”


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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Coëmgenu »

In the Pa-Auk Sayadaw's text Mindfulness of Breathing, it refers to something called "ānāpāna jhānas." AFAIK (and someone please correct me if this is a mistaken assumption), this refers to jhāna accessed specifically from ānāpānasati. His text outlines a progression from these jhanas to the realization of dependent origination, the four truths, and ultimately to Nibbāna. This could not be more related to dependent origination. What is more related to it than that by which it is undone?
The Requisites of Enlightenment in Tranquility

When one attains the four anapana jhanas, one is practising samatha (tranquility meditation). That means one is actually developing the thirty-seven requisites of enlightenment. How?

• To be mindful of the breath body, in the way we have explained, is "body contemplation;" to be mindful of the jhana factors of pleasant and neutral feelings is "feelings contemplation;" to be mindful of the exalted mind is "mind contemplation;" and to be mindful of things such as the anapana panibhaganimitta and the jhana factors is "dhamma contemplation." That is, to develop the four foundations of mindfulness.
• Furthermore, to make effort to remove unwholesome things such as the five hindrances (sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and worry, and scepticism); and to make effort to develop wholesome things such as the five controlling faculties (faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom). That is, to develop the four right efforts.
• Furthermore, to enter into jhana with either predominantly zeal, or predominantly effort, or mind, or investigation, is to develop the four bases of spiritual power.
• Furthermore, to have strong faith in anapanasati; to make constant effort to concentrate on the anapana panibhaganimitta; to be mindful of the panibhaganimitta; to concentrate on the panibhaganimitta; and to comprehend the panibhaganimitta, is to develop the five controlling faculties. To develop them in this way is also to develop the five powers.
• Furthermore, to be mindful of the anapana panibhaganimitta; to investigate the panibhaganimitta; to make constant effort to focus on the panibhaganimitta; to be rapturous upon focussing on the panibhaganimitta; to tranquillize one's mind upon the panibhaganimitta; to concentrate on the panibhaganimitta; and to look upon the panibhaganimitta with equanimity, is to develop the seven enlightenment factors.
• Lastly, to understand the anapana panibhaganimitta is Right View; to apply one's mind to the panibhaganimitta is Right Thought; to abstain from wrong speech, wrong action, and wrong livelihood by having undertaken the precepts, is Right Speech, Right Action, and Right Livelihood; to make effort to concentrate on the panibhaganimitta is Right Effort; to be mindful of the panibhaganimitta is Right Mindfulness; and to have jhana is Right Concentration. To develop those eight things is to cultivate the eight factors corresponding to the Noble Eightfold Path.

That is how to develop samatha using anapanasati to develop all thirty-seven requisites of enlightenment.

Discerning the Objects for Vipassana

Having developed the four anapana jhanas, one is now able to practise vipassana. Because with the light of wisdom one has developed with anapanasati, one is now able to discern ultimate materiality, ultimate mentality, and their causes. They are the objects of Vipassana.

Discerning Ultimate Materiality

To discern ultimate materiality, one begins with air [i.e. breath] meditation and moves to the other elements. That is, one discerns the four elements in one's body filled with one's breath. One discerns the four elements by way of twelve characteristics:

Earth Element: 1) hardness, 2) roughness, 3) heaviness, 4) softness, 5) smoothness, 6) lightness
Water Element: 7) flowing, 8) cohesion
Fire Element: 9) heat, 10) cold
Wind Element: 11) supporting, 12) pushing

One discerns these twelve characteristics first in one part of one's breath, then in one's body, and then externally. With practice, one will be able to discern all twelve characteristics throughout one's body quite quickly: at about two to three rounds a minute. Then, to develop one's concentration further, one takes an overview of the body to discern each characteristic in the body as a whole. With practice, one will be able to discern all twelve characteristics almost at once. And with yet further practice, one will then be able to discern the twelve characteristics as just the four elements: earth, water, fire, and wind. Then, as one's mindfulness of and concentration on the four elements develops, one will perceive one's body in different ways. It will first appear as a grey body, then as a white body, and then as a transparent body like a block of ice. When one discerns the four elements in that transparent body, they emit brilliant light, which then breaks into tiny particles that arise and pass away at great speed: they are in Pàli called rupa kalapas (clusters of materiality). But they are not ultimate materiality. To discern ultimate materiality, one discerns the four elements in single rupa kalapas, one element after the other. Afterwards, one discerns the various kinds of derived materiality (upadana rupa): for example, colour, odour, flavour, and nutritive essence. Altogether one discerns and analyses twenty-eight types of materiality. They are ultimate materiality, arising and passing away. Then one analyses the ultimate materiality of the external world: that of other beings, and that of inanimate things.

Discerning Ultimate Mentality

Having discerned ultimate materiality, one then discerns ultimate mentality. One begins with jhana. One enters into jhana and emerges. Then, as before, one discerns the anapana panibhaganimitta at the mind-door. And then one discerns the jhana cognitive-process's individual mental formations. For example, one discerns the thirty-four mental formations of the anapana first-jhana cognitive process:

(1) consciousness
(2) contact
(3) feeling
(4) perception
(5) volition
(6) one-pointedness
(7) life-faculty
(8) attention
(9) initial application
(10) sustained application
(11) decision
(12) effort
(13) rapture
(14) desire
(15) faith
(16) mindfulness
(17) shame of wrongdoing
(18) fear of wrongdoing
(19) non-greed
(20) non-hatred
(21) neutrality of mind
(22) tranquility of mental body
(23) tranquility of consciousness
(24) lightness of mental body
(25) lightness of consciousness
(26) malleability of mental body
(27) malleability of consciousness
(28) wieldiness of mental body
(29) wieldiness of consciousness
(30) proficiency of mental body
(31) proficiency of consciousness
(32) rectitude of mental body
(33) rectitude of consciousness
(34) wisdom faculty

One discerns these thirty-four mental formations systematically: one by one. First, one emerges from the anapana first jhana and discerns the mental formation consciousness of each of the jhana cognitive process's consciousness moments. Then again one enters the first jhana, again emerges, and now discerns both the mental formation consciousness as well as the mental formation contact. Then again one enters the first jhana, again emerges, and again discerns consciousness and contact, and now also feeling. In that way, one adds one mental formation at a time, till one in the end is able to discern all thirty-four mental formations of the first jhana. In the same way one discerns the thirty-two mental formations of the second jhana; and the thirty-one mental formations of the third and fourth jhanas. That is ultimate mentality, arising and passing away. The four anapana jhanas are fine-material realm cognitive processes, and they are only wholesome. But there are also other kinds of mentality. So one discerns also the various mental formations of sensual realm cognitive-processes: of the eye-, ear-, nose-, tongue-, body-, and mind-door, wholesome and unwholesome. Afterwards, one discerns the ultimate mentality of the external world: that of other beings. When this stage of the meditation is complete, one will have done four things:

1) One will have discerned one's own ultimate materiality (internally), and all other materiality (externally).
2) One will have discerned ultimate mentality internally and externally.
3) One will have discerned ultimate materiality and ultimate mentality together internally and externally.
4) One will have distinguished ultimate materiality and ultimate mentality internally and externally to see that there is no self, no person, and no being, but only materiality and mentality arising and passing away.

When one has completed these four things, one will have attained the Knowledge of Defining Mentality-Materiality.

Discerning Dependent Origination

Now one is able to discern dependent origination. Gradually recollecting one's past materiality and mentality, one is able to recollect the first moment of one's present life: at conception. Then one goes further back, to recollect the last moments of one's past life. There one goes along the continuity of mentality-materiality, backwards and forwards, to find the causes for one's present rebirth. One's present mentality-materiality is the result of mainly five things:

1) Ignorance: ignorantly believing that there exists a real human being.
2) Craving: craving for that human being's life.
3) Clinging: clinging to that human being's life.
4) Volitional formations: the volitional formations responsible for one's present rebirth. When it is a human rebirth, the volitional formations are
always wholesome.
5) Existence of kamma: the kammic force that produced one's present rebirth.

Having discerned these five main causes for one's present life, one then discerns the relationship between the five past causes and the present results. Then, in the same way, one discerns the relationship between causes and results in more past lives, and in future lives. And systematically one discerns all twelve links of dependent origination: ignorance, formations, consciousness, mentality-materiality, the six bases, contact, feeling, craving, clinging, coming into existence, birth, and ageing-&-death. One discerns their causal relationship in past lives, the present life, and in future lives. When one has discerned the relationship between causes and results in this way, one will have attained the The Knowledge of Apprehending the Condition.
The term "patibhāganimitta" refers to the mental perception of the object of the meditation. In Theravāda, this is a non-dual and all-encompassing yogic perception of the meditative subject (i.e. "the breath" in this instance) that suspects normal cognition. Bodily senses are inactive according to traditional Theravādin understandings of jhāna, so this doesn't necessarily actually mean "the (physical) breath." This is a mental or otherwise "psychic" perception of the breath, unless I'm framing things wrongly.
The many dharmas are alien to existence and nonexistence.
The Āryan is without imputations of existence and nonexistence.
The Āryan, as he is alien to the imputations, cognitions, and views of these two, in this sense is known as "mindless."
The mind of a Buddha is alien to all things:
the skandhas, the dhātus, the āyatanas, the grasper, the grasped.
His pure dharmas are anātmaka, like his unarisen mind.
Thus it is said: "the Great Void of Self-Nature," "the Abyss of Prajñā,"
"the Ocean of Nothing," and "the Eyeless Vision"
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

mjaviem wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:11 pm
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 pm ... contemplating the subject whilst sitting next to a corpse, and comparing the decomposing body with ones own body and letting it sink in that it is of the same nature and will inevitably share the same fate, as will every embodied beings body.
That's not mindfulness of death. That's perception of death.
Which is the correct practice.
Mindfulness of the perception of death is maranasati.

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:16 pm
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 pm

What would mindfulness with death look like?
There can be variations.
In one of it's purest forms it involves contemplating the subject whilst sitting next to a corpse, and comparing the decomposing body with ones own body and letting it sink in that it is of the same nature and will inevitably share the same fate, as will every embodied beings body.
I was questioning more the translation you proposed. In Maraṇasati one is not "mindful with death", which would read as being mindful whilst dying or dead. Rather one bears the idea of death in mind (sati). I would read ānāpānasati in the same manner. You are of course aware of other things whilst practicing ānāpānasati. Since it fulfils satipaṭṭhāna you are aware of an aspect of the body which, in this case, is the breath. You are also mindfully aware of your feelings, be the worldly or otherworldly, your state of mind, be it distracted or not, expansive or not, and mental qualities such to the presence or absence of the hindrances or awakening factors.
Yes, I am aware that you were raising this. I don't think it matters greatly as both are applicable.
One is mindful of the breath (keeps the breath in mind) and mindful withthe breath (being with the breath helps keep one mindful and present).
One is also mindful of various other phenomena in anapanasati whilst with the breath

I.e.
"He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.'"

Clearly therefore one is mindful with the breath, of various other sensations and contemplations as well.

I also don't think there is an exact equivalency in meanng with anapanasati and maranasati just because of the word sati. This is pedanticism.

Clearly, one could argue though that both interpretations can be true.
We are always breathing and can thus be mindful with the breath.
One cannot always be mindful of or with death, unless you have the view that we are always aging and thus dying and can be mindful continuously of this also.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein the mind ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:18 pmI also don't think there is an exact equivalency in meanng with anapanasati and maranasati just because of the word sati. This is pedanticism.
This is like saying, "I don't think there is an exact equivalency in meaning with vedanākkhandha and saññākkhandha just because of the word 'khandha.'"

Of course the vedanākkhandha and saññākkhandha are different. Of course maraṇasati and ānāpānasati are different. "Sati" does not mean two different things between the two terms anymore than "khandha" means anything other than "aggregates" in the sense of "five aggregates" between the two other terms. Sati is sati. Khandha is khandha. Sati doesn't have mostly a "mindfulness" sense in one compound and then a "remembrance" sense in the other. It has a "sati" sense in both (which includes both of these English senses listed).

We are always dying. We can always be mindful of death. It is easier to be mindful of death with "the dead" present in some way, but the gradual transformation into one of these "dead folks" is always happening, is always present.

If the jīvitindriya, life-faculty, is the flow of prāṇa, then this actually weakens during the life. Normally, you cannot feel your body die as it dies necessarily. In deep samādhi, you can feel your body die as the prāṇa flows with less and less efficacy by tiny degrees and the associated jīvitindriya weakens and weakens. This last point is not "Theravādin," however. If the uṣṇatā, bodily warmth, is metabolism, so too is this perceivable at all times as it slowly is subject to the transformations of age and, eventually, death. Aging is simply the very gradual process of dying. The two occupy one "link" in dependent origination. That aging is death can be observed in the present at any time. Even observing the ever-changing flow of dharmas is a form of observing death. All saṃsāric transformation, all change, is of death. Once again, this point is not "Theravādin," however.

Returning to Theravāda, we have death as "the ruin of success" (in both the sense that all success is temporary and that all successful ones die) which can be contemplated in the present, also death as "the abode of many-many worms" (which I believe refers specifically to the corpse meditations ...?), as "without occasion" (i.e. "I could die right now, in the present"), as "the shortness of a lifetime," and as "the difficulty of staying alive." This is all from Visuddhimagga.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:46 pm, edited 6 times in total.
The many dharmas are alien to existence and nonexistence.
The Āryan is without imputations of existence and nonexistence.
The Āryan, as he is alien to the imputations, cognitions, and views of these two, in this sense is known as "mindless."
The mind of a Buddha is alien to all things:
the skandhas, the dhātus, the āyatanas, the grasper, the grasped.
His pure dharmas are anātmaka, like his unarisen mind.
Thus it is said: "the Great Void of Self-Nature," "the Abyss of Prajñā,"
"the Ocean of Nothing," and "the Eyeless Vision"
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by mjaviem »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:18 pm Which is the correct practice.
Mindfulness of the perception of death is maranasati.
...
Maranassati is the wish to practise because you know you can die. You are not distracted of this fact and want to practice without delay as explained in AN 6.19 Paṭhamamaraṇassatisutta
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:18 pm
Yes, I am aware that you were raising this. I don't think it matters greatly as both are applicable.
One is mindful of the breath (keeps the breath in mind) and mindful withthe breath (being with the breath helps keep one mindful and present).
One is also mindful of various other phenomena in anapanasati whilst with the breath

I.e.
"He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.'"

Clearly therefore one is mindful with the breath, of various other sensations and contemplations as well.

I also don't think there is an exact equivalency in meanng with anapanasati and maranasati just because of the word sati. This is pedanticism.

Clearly, one could argue though that both interpretations can be true.
We are always breathing and can thus be mindful with the breath.
One cannot always be mindful of or with death, unless you have the view that we are always aging and thus dying and can be mindful continuously of this also.
For once I don't think we are too far off agreeing. One is mindful of the breath, as the breath is an aspect of the body (I quite like Sujato's translation here) that we are taking as an object or basis of meditation. We train to become aware of the whole breath or the whole experience of breathing. On this part I don't think we need to be aware of the entire body here, down to the toes, but some clearly have success that way so there is probably some leeway. Anyway, whilst doing this we also train to still the breath/breathing which makes the body still. At the same time we are mindfully aware of our feelings, our state of mind and qualities of mind (vedanā, citta and dhammā). This is of course to practice satipaṭṭhāna. I think it's important to note that the tetrads of mindfulness of breathing show us what we are aiming for. We are aiming to know the whole body (however you read that), to tranquilise the body, for rapture, for bliss, for tranquillity of nāma, to experience the citta directly, to gladden it via seeing the abeyance of the hindrances and growth of the awakening factors, to completely tranqualise it and to liberate it from the hindrances, to know the impermanence of the hindrances, their letting go and cessation which feeds the awakening factors. In order to perfect them we have to practice satipaṭṭhāna, and when mindfulness of breathing is perfected the satipaṭṭhāna are perfected. The aim is for a perfectly still body and mind, the immovable state. Mindfulness of breathing and satipaṭṭhāna then are, in my view, more different aspects to be aware of in one meditative experience rather than linear stages we progress through. I take then a more holistic view of the practices. Throughout though, sati here always means "mindful of" than "mindful with". Mindful of an aspect of the body, mindful of feelings, mindful of states of mind and mindful of the qualities of our mind. On ānāpānasati and maraṇasati I think "sati" here means the same, as Coëmgenu pointed out above.
“In the same way, great king, when a bhikkhu sees that these five hindrances are unabandoned within himself, he regards that as a debt, as a sickness, as confinement in prison, as slavery, as a desert road.

“But when he sees that these five hindrances have been abandoned within himself, he regards that as freedom from debt, as good health, as release from prison, as freedom from slavery, as a place of safety.”


Sāmaññaphalasutta
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:22 pm Throughout though, sati here always means "mindful of" than "mindful with". Mindful of an aspect of the body, mindful of feelings, mindful of states of mind and mindful of the qualities of our mind. On ānāpānasati and maraṇasati I think "sati" here means the same, as Coëmgenu pointed out above.
Per the descriptions you have given, anapanasati means both 'mindful of' and 'mindful with'.
Mindfulness with breathing, and mindful of x.

As I said though the distinction doesn't change much in terms of how one practices. It's also not the subject of this thread so I don't want to get sidetracked.
You have not offered of how you think anapanasati relates to paticcasamupada.

If anapanasati leads to liberation, and liberation is comprehending paticcasamupada then they must relate to each other.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein the mind ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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