https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirthika
Tashi Delek, Sawasdekaap, Hello to everyone.
I've been studying pali language for a while now.
I'd like to ask you about the word "heretic" that in some buddhist books or writters appears. For example in Nagarjuna teachings.
I think the word translated as "heretic" is Tirthika. And I think also is a word that was in early buddhist days to describe people who confronted Buddha and his Sassanas from a Sassatavada or ucchedavada perspective.
According to wikipedia
Tīrthika (Sanskrit: tīrthika, Pali: titthiya, "ford-maker," meaning one who is attempting to cross the stream of saṃsāra[1]) in Indian philosophy is a general term referring to non-Buddhists in general
The question would be; has it a 'negative' meaning just like Kafir in islamic perspective? Or is just a word to describe a person in an state of Avidya (ignorance).
Thank u all
Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
Yes, in Pali it is titthiya. I think tirthika might be Sanskrit.Rinpoche wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:07 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirthika
Tashi Delek, Sawasdekaap, Hello to everyone.
I've been studying pali language for a while now.
I'd like to ask you about the word "heretic" that in some buddhist books or writters appears. For example in Nagarjuna teachings.
I think the word translated as "heretic" is Tirthika. And I think also is a word that was in early buddhist days to describe people who confronted Buddha and his Sassanas from a Sassatavada or ucchedavada perspective.
According to wikipedia
Tīrthika (Sanskrit: tīrthika, Pali: titthiya, "ford-maker," meaning one who is attempting to cross the stream of saṃsāra[1]) in Indian philosophy is a general term referring to non-Buddhists in general
The question would be; has it a 'negative' meaning just like Kafir in islamic perspective? Or is just a word to describe a person in an state of Avidya (ignorance).
Thank u all
It means something like "sectarian". (A tittha is a sect, a group with a different path or approach to the Buddha). It is, as far as I know, only used in a negative sense, as in "people who are getting it wrong, or being led astray". See this sutta:
https://suttacentral.net/an3.61/en/suja ... ript=latin
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
So in a close meaning a Tithiya it could be a muslim or a christian too, yes?Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:32 pmYes, in Pali it is titthiya. I think tirthika might be Sanskrit.Rinpoche wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:07 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirthika
Tashi Delek, Sawasdekaap, Hello to everyone.
I've been studying pali language for a while now.
I'd like to ask you about the word "heretic" that in some buddhist books or writters appears. For example in Nagarjuna teachings.
I think the word translated as "heretic" is Tirthika. And I think also is a word that was in early buddhist days to describe people who confronted Buddha and his Sassanas from a Sassatavada or ucchedavada perspective.
According to wikipedia
Tīrthika (Sanskrit: tīrthika, Pali: titthiya, "ford-maker," meaning one who is attempting to cross the stream of saṃsāra[1]) in Indian philosophy is a general term referring to non-Buddhists in general
The question would be; has it a 'negative' meaning just like Kafir in islamic perspective? Or is just a word to describe a person in an state of Avidya (ignorance).
Thank u all
It means something like "sectarian". (A tittha is a sect, a group with a different path or approach to the Buddha). It is, as far as I know, only used in a negative sense, as in "people who are getting it wrong, or being led astray". See this sutta:
https://suttacentral.net/an3.61/en/suja ... ript=latin
But only the ones who want to "deny" the doctrine I guess, not the ones who were born in that paths.
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
I wonder if it has anything to do with the word "Tīrthaṅkara." The Jains use that word in place of something like "Tathāgata." Jains would likely be "heretics" to the early Buddhist community.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
That would make sense, if it means "sect maker", i.e. a founder of a tradition. "Kara" is I think "doer" or "maker".
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
Good question, but I guess the answer is a matter of how far you want to apply the word.Rinpoche wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:57 pmSo in a close meaning a Tithiya it could be a muslim or a christian too, yes?Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:32 pmYes, in Pali it is titthiya. I think tirthika might be Sanskrit.Rinpoche wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:07 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirthika
Tashi Delek, Sawasdekaap, Hello to everyone.
I've been studying pali language for a while now.
I'd like to ask you about the word "heretic" that in some buddhist books or writters appears. For example in Nagarjuna teachings.
I think the word translated as "heretic" is Tirthika. And I think also is a word that was in early buddhist days to describe people who confronted Buddha and his Sassanas from a Sassatavada or ucchedavada perspective.
According to wikipedia
Tīrthika (Sanskrit: tīrthika, Pali: titthiya, "ford-maker," meaning one who is attempting to cross the stream of saṃsāra[1]) in Indian philosophy is a general term referring to non-Buddhists in general
The question would be; has it a 'negative' meaning just like Kafir in islamic perspective? Or is just a word to describe a person in an state of Avidya (ignorance).
Thank u all
It means something like "sectarian". (A tittha is a sect, a group with a different path or approach to the Buddha). It is, as far as I know, only used in a negative sense, as in "people who are getting it wrong, or being led astray". See this sutta:
https://suttacentral.net/an3.61/en/suja ... ript=latin
But only the ones who want to "deny" the doctrine I guess, not the ones who were born in that paths.
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
I think it means "ford-weaver," but I can't remember where I read that, and it might be wrong.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
"Weaver" might be a form of "maker", so poetically "one who makes a way"?
Re: Pali word - Tirthika (Heretic, non-buddhist)
I think the full meaning to any romance or germanic language from Tirthika would be something like:
The one who cross Samsara without understand -in avitya- (aka Die in a non-enlighted way)
Like Ford: "to cross a river".