why jhanic pleasure dont invade mind while sensual pleasure do?

[confusedlayman]

why?

[Ceisiwr]

why?

The Jhanas are states of letting go. Of being at peace, calm, tranquil, still. They are levels of renunciation. They are mini-nibbanas. Within no underlying tendencies can be activated, but someone can mistake them for the final goal.

[Sam Vara]

why?

Can you quote the sutta? It might just mean that both pleasures occupy the mind, but sensual pleasures are warned against with the more emotive word.

[mikenz66]

Here's thje sutta reference:

“Now when I had eaten solid food and regained my strength, then quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I entered upon and abided in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. But such pleasant feeling that arose in me did not invade my mind and remain.
MN36: https://suttacentral.net/mn36/en/bodhi? ... ight=false

Mike

[Sam Vara]

Here's thje sutta reference:

“Now when I had eaten solid food and regained my strength, then quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I entered upon and abided in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. But such pleasant feeling that arose in me did not invade my mind and remain.
MN36: https://suttacentral.net/mn36/en/bodhi? ... ight=false

Mike

Thanks Mike.

As I thought, there is nothing there which suggests there is any inherent difference between the two types of pleasure in this respect. Within the context of this passage (i.e. sensual pleasures bad and unwholesome, pleasures in jhana desirable and aimed for) I think it is just reiterating that sensual pleasures should be seen as invasive. The Pali is:

uppannā sukhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati.

"did not stay/stand/remain having exhausted/used up the mind". That seems to be on account of the way the Buddha handles such pleasures.

But it's probably more important to note we are not here comparing like with like. The mind is in the one instance secluded from kāma, which is sensuality or lust or the objects thereof (and is of a piece with "unwholesome qualities") but in the other instance, it is not occupied/invaded by the pleasant vedana.

[confusedlayman]

Ok i got answer.. u cant replicate jhana pleasure when ur 5 sence are working but u can think of xx and already have body tuned for it .. but when physical body is not in awareness but mind is awake, any positive thing like metta will induce jhana but xx thought wont come

[Inedible]

This line of thinking also seems to suggest why sensual pleasures like sex, junk food, television, and movies can be problems. It isn't so much that they are bad, as that they are not at all subtle. It is like when I'm out walking along the side of the road at night and a car comes along. Suddenly I can't see where I'm going because of the headlights. My night vision is ruined and I can't see where I'm going. It takes time after the car passes to get back to being confident about what I'm seeing and where I'm going and it is easy to miss details I might otherwise have picked up on about my trip.

[mjaviem]

why?

What do you mean? In MN 36 it's said that a pleasant feeling doesn't invade the mind of a well-taught noble disciple because he's developed in body. It's also said that a pleasant feeling does invade the mind of an untaught ordinary person because he's not developed in body.