Monastery airconditioning and heating system

[TRobinson465]

Does most of the monastery in the west use airconditioning system in the summer and heating sistem in the winter ? Does it agaisnt the precept and practice to indulge in pleasurable condition ? Would not using it very costly and unaffordable for monks and burdensome for lays to support ?

Perhaps when air conditioning was a luxury and very expensive it would have been improper, but I dont think it would be in todays world. I dont really see it as any different than monastaries having other modern conveniences like running water or artificial lighting, or things like laptops and internet. again, back when that was only something the wealthy could afford perhaps improper, but not really nowadays. Just chalking up everything in the modern world as being too "luxurious" for monks is just trying to find fault in monks for the sake of finding faults and isnt conducive for the longevity of the Dhamma.

A lot of people with less than basic knowledge of modern Buddhism who just like to find fault in others say stupid things like complain about monks having laptops and internet access thinking its too luxurious. But such complaints should be a laughingstock in a place like this, where every single monk on the forum is a monk with internet and either a computer or smartphone to access it, and over half the sources everyone here uses come from websites tended to and updated by monks who, by definition, would have to have a "luxuious" modern convenience like a computer or smartphone to operate the said website.

[asahi]

Perhaps when air conditioning was a luxury and very expensive it would have been improper, but I dont think it would be in todays world. I dont really see it as any different than monastaries having other modern conveniences like running water or artificial lighting, or things like laptops and internet. again, back when that was only something the wealthy could afford perhaps improper, but not really nowadays. Just chalking up everything in the modern world as being too "luxurious" for monks is just trying to find fault in monks for the sake of finding faults and isnt conducive for the longevity of the Dhamma.

A lot of people with less than basic knowledge of modern Buddhism who just like to find fault in others say stupid things like complain about monks having laptops and internet access thinking its too luxurious. But such complaints should be a laughingstock in a place like this, where every single monk on the forum is a monk with internet and either a computer or smartphone to access it, and over half the sources everyone here uses come from websites tended to and updated by monks who, by definition, would have to have a "luxuious" modern convenience like a computer or smartphone to operate the said website.

Good analysis . Of course , when everything becomes so obvious and convenient who would think of it , is a problem or is some kind of a risk to their trainings . The question is could they still be practicing arduously with all the sensual alluring product very handy at their fingertips away only . This is a valid question . And it doesnt necessary means when asking such question somehow they are trying to find fault in someone , at least not everyone , at least not me . This is something to look at when if we are thinking of renunciation . If one were to look at country like Thailand where you could still find those goes into forest dwelling or on tudong renunciates that they really could achieve something in a lifetime such as ajahn chah , ajahn sumedho , ajahn Dtun etc etc . They dont have times to caught up in all worldly entanglements . And you can easily sees nowadays those renunciates who handle moneys are in a way , are compromising their practices and in the long run could lost their way .


Ps . Just to be clear , above questioning is not criticising . Although we know that in history in the past many buddhists did criticised the brahmins or other ascetics and it seems normal for buddhists find fault with other spiritual paths that they are not agreeing with . Now buddhists themselves has becomes the brahmins caste , holding a higher authority over ordinary peoples , that they are exempted from being censure . Btw , this is a forum , discussing dhamma and vinaya too . And one could find that many buddhists thinking they are the real BSJW .

[TRobinson465]

Perhaps when air conditioning was a luxury and very expensive it would have been improper, but I dont think it would be in todays world. I dont really see it as any different than monastaries having other modern conveniences like running water or artificial lighting, or things like laptops and internet. again, back when that was only something the wealthy could afford perhaps improper, but not really nowadays. Just chalking up everything in the modern world as being too "luxurious" for monks is just trying to find fault in monks for the sake of finding faults and isnt conducive for the longevity of the Dhamma.

A lot of people with less than basic knowledge of modern Buddhism who just like to find fault in others say stupid things like complain about monks having laptops and internet access thinking its too luxurious. But such complaints should be a laughingstock in a place like this, where every single monk on the forum is a monk with internet and either a computer or smartphone to access it, and over half the sources everyone here uses come from websites tended to and updated by monks who, by definition, would have to have a "luxuious" modern convenience like a computer or smartphone to operate the said website.

Good analysis . Of course , when everything becomes so obvious and convenient who would think of it , is a problem or is some kind of a risk to their trainings . The question is could they still be practicing arduously with all the sensual alluring product very handy at their fingertips away only . This is a valid question . And it doesnt necessary means when asking such question somehow they are trying to find fault in someone , at least not everyone , at least not me . This is something to look at when if we are thinking of renunciation . If one were to look at country like Thailand where you could still find those goes into forest dwelling or on tudong renunciates that they really could achieve something in a lifetime such as ajahn chah , ajahn sumedho , ajahn Dtun etc etc . They dont have times to caught up in all worldly entanglements . And you can easily sees nowadays those renunciates who handle moneys are in a way , are compromising their practices and in the long run could lost their way .


Ps . Just to be clear , above questioning is not criticising . Although we know that in history in the past many buddhists did criticised the brahmins or other ascetics and it seems normal for buddhists find fault with other spiritual paths that they are not agreeing with . Now buddhists themselves has becomes the brahmins caste , holding a higher authority over ordinary peoples , that they are exempted from being censure . Btw , this is a forum , discussing dhamma and vinaya too . And one could find that many buddhists thinking they are the real BSJW .

Yes correct. Not every such question is looking for faults. I wasn't accusing you of such just more pointing out that ppl like to do such things, criticize monks for having AC or running water etc in such a manner.

It is indeed a valid question. But I consider AC just a common modern convenience like lighting and running water that makes life easier rather than a sensual indulgence.

[asahi]

It is indeed a valid question. But I consider AC just a common modern convenience like lighting and running water that makes life easier rather than a sensual indulgence.

I dont know if you ever visited a forest monastery and met any tudong monk or having chance staying close with such genuine renunciates before , if you do you will understand how the hardcore monks practicing . Just fyi , all these "ordinary" and "normal" conveniences could becomes a kind of obstacle or hindrance to their practices , really .

[TRobinson465]

It is indeed a valid question. But I consider AC just a common modern convenience like lighting and running water that makes life easier rather than a sensual indulgence.

I dont know if you ever visited a forest monastery and met any tudong monk or having chance staying close with such genuine renunciates before , if you do you will understand how the hardcore monks practicing . Just fyi , all these "ordinary" and "normal" conveniences could becomes a kind of obstacle or hindrance to their practices , really .

That's neat to know. But tudonga is an additional practice. Not required. Requiring monks to do optional practices is being unreasonablely judgemental. I've visited many forest monasteries but have yet to encounter ones that don't have electricity or running water. It would certainly be interesting to find one tho.

[asahi]

That's neat to know. But tudonga is an additional practice. Not required. Requiring monks to do optional practices is being unreasonablely judgemental. I've visited many forest monasteries but have yet to encounter ones that don't have electricity or running water. It would certainly be interesting to find one tho.

No , thats not what i meant . Meaning is using of airconditioning is not something usually can be seen in forest monastery . And no i dont mean requiring monks to practice tudong or other optional practices . It just means those "regular" to us daily usage could be somewhat causing obstruction to them by arousing sense of attachment if not mindful enough . I have been to several forest monasteries in Thailand , the main hall and maechees quarters does have electricity and running waters but if you visit the monk kutis , only simple bedsheet . Nothing extra found . I stayed quite sometimes there . We use torchlight at night or whenever going to share toilet some distance away from kuti and early morning walking to the main hall to do morning services , meditation or some chanting .

[TRobinson465]

That's neat to know. But tudonga is an additional practice. Not required. Requiring monks to do optional practices is being unreasonablely judgemental. I've visited many forest monasteries but have yet to encounter ones that don't have electricity or running water. It would certainly be interesting to find one tho.

No , thats not what i meant . Meaning is using of airconditioning is not something usually can be seen in forest monastery . And no i dont mean requiring monks to practice tudong or other optional practices . It just means those "regular" to us daily usage could be somewhat causing obstruction to them by arousing sense of attachment if not mindful enough . I have been to several forest monasteries in Thailand , the main hall and maechees quarters does have electricity and running waters but if you visit the monk kutis , only simple bedsheet . Nothing extra found . I stayed quite sometimes there . We use torchlight at night or whenever going to share toilet some distance away from kuti and early morning walking to the main hall to do morning services , meditation or some chanting .

Oh I see, yes i have also been to many temples with no AC, many in fact only have fans if anything. But like i said, for the reasons I stated before, i dont consider AC to be off limits.

[asahi]

i dont consider AC to be off limits.

Sure , thats personal view . For monastery that would be a different perspective to look at .

[mjaviem]

... but if you visit the monk kutis , only simple bedsheet . Nothing extra found . I stayed quite sometimes there . We use torchlight at night or whenever going to share toilet some distance away from kuti and early morning walking to the main hall to do morning services , meditation or some chanting .

[sunnat]

Sariputta became an arhat while standing behind Buddha fanning him.

There was a time when bhikkhus were using any number of robes to cover themselves on cold nights. Buddha sat through such a night and found that 3 was enough.


SN 16.8 exhortation(3)

‘…in the past the elder Bhikkhus were forest dwellers and spoke in praise of forest dwelling; they were alms- food eaters and spoke in praise of eating alms-food;

they were rag-robe wearers and spoke in praise of wearing rag-robes; they were triple-robe users and spoke in praise of using the triple robe;

they were of few wishes and spoke in praise of fewness of wishes; they were content and spoke in praise of contentment; they were secluded and spoke in praise of solitude;’

…


But now, Kassapa, the elder Bhikkhus are no longer forest dwellers and do not speak in praise of forest dwelling … … they are no longer energetic and do not speak in praise of arousing energy.”

Now it is the Bhikkhu who is well known and famous, one who gains robes, alms-food, lodgings, and medicinal requisites, that the elder Bhikkhus invite to a seat, saying:

‘Come, Bhikkhu. What is this Bhikkhu’s name? This is an excellent Bhikkhu. This Bhikkhu is keen on the company of his brothers in the holy life. Come, Bhikkhu, here’s a seat, sit down.’

Then it occurs to the newly ordained Bhikkhus:

‘It seems that when a Bhikkhu is well known and famous, one who gains robes, alms- food, lodgings, and medicinal requisites, the elder Bhikkhus invite him to a seat….’

They practise accordingly, and that leads to their harm and suffering for a long time….’

[Bhikkhu Cagasampanno]

Heating and air-conditioning are essential in certain climates to prevent frostbite/hypothermia and heat stroke.

Considering the rule for monastics is written with the caveat 'unless one is ill', should they first wait for the previously mentioned conditions to set in before turning on the heat/lighting a fire or turning on the air-conditioning?

If it is done for the sake of personal comfort that is another matter entirely.

[santa100]

Heating and air-conditioning are essential in certain climates to prevent frostbite/hypothermia and heat stroke.

Considering the rule for monastics is written with the caveat 'unless one is ill', should they first wait for the previously mentioned conditions to set in before turning on the heat/lighting a fire or turning on the air-conditioning?

If it is done for the sake of personal comfort that is another matter entirely.

also need to factor in the potential extra cost/burden on the lay community's support. 2,500 years ago, there was no fancy heating system, certainly no AC, and folks still attained enlightenment just fine.

[Johann]

Does most of the monastery in the west use airconditioning system in the summer and heating sistem in the winter ? Does it agaisnt the precept and practice to indulge in pleasurable condition ? Would not using it very costly and unaffordable for monks and burdensome for lays to support ?

Good householder, (possible going here inbetween other talks)

It's improper to use fire, harm, to gain pleasing feelings from not to cold, as it is improper and harm, to gain pleasing feeling from not to hot. Aothers suffer for ones sensual pleasures, and who will pay the bill?

Ther had been Bhikkhus warming on fire, and a young Samanera, seeing them doing improper, went on to collect robes, giving them and reminded them on the live of the Brahmas, metta.

If one reads the Vinaya in the wrong direction, one will find any hole for ones desires.

If lay people go for such, just don't turn it on (it's in most cases not payed yet.) Sure, one who seeks for remorseless dwelling, will not make use of "felling fighting-serving means", "tanha-supports".

If seeing air-conditioner and like a like at dwellings thought that of Sages and warriors, in use, know it as a village.

Such as electronical fans (fast turning wheels) are killer, not proper to use. Much merits if one waves a fan, but even such is disturbing. Open fire is a "suicide" magnet.

And all of that means actually increase sickness, aren't healthy at all. Of course all of that is hard to bear if one dwells heedless, out of the frame of referances. Less monks don't resist like householder, not increase debts.

How ever, less fault can be seen if using given solar panels (at least depluged from debt systems) to run harmless things, or other means, like earth warm, or wind, yet again, robes and dwellings are to protect from weather, heat, cold.

Virtue is cause of happiness, cause of health, cause of wealth, cause of debtlessness.

At least, a monks has feets, if not at able to bear conditions, or life according Vinaya gives no ease. Climate and dwellings are a matter of Upanissaya.

And heater or air-conditioning is merely essential for those with less Upanissaya and to will to increase it. All of that got essential just in the last generation (de-generation), yet at the same time happy to breed under the sun and pleased by dark skin. Devas have a hard when coming down to earth's conditions, reality.

[Johann]

Maybe in addition, in relation of the training, path: There are fermentations to get ride off by bearing: cold, heard, bodily pain, bodily, verbal hurts... bodily feelings of all kind.

Such requires staying within the frames of reference. Getting "forces" to that, Vinaya, virtue, metta.

Especially this days it's ver visible that going after sensual pleasures are the causes of all cheating, gross harms and even wars.

Disciples of the Buddha aren't hypocritical demonstrater or demander, but real climate and peace activists in action, without harming themselves or others, not using others pain for one's pleasure and even lazyness (in doing the path/sense restrain).