Dhuta-angas

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thomaslaw
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Dhuta-angas

Post by thomaslaw »

The Visuddhimagga lists the thirteen 'ascetic practices' dhuta-angas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhutanga). Do any Pali suttas record the Buddha teaches all the thirteen practices of dhuta as a set of practices?

One of the dhuta practices, no. 13. "Sitter's Practice (nesajjik'anga) — living in the three postures of walking, standing and sitting and never lying down", seems very difficult to practice, and also not good for health, both mental and physical.
santa100
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by santa100 »

thomaslaw wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:21 am The Visuddhimagga lists the thirteen 'ascetic practices' dhuta-angas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhutanga). Do any Pali suttas record the Buddha teaches all the thirteen practices of dhuta as a set of practices?
They're mentioned in a series of suttas at AN 1.378-381 and AN 5.181-190
Notice that the Dhutanga are praiseworthy but not mandatory.
Jack19990101
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by Jack19990101 »

imo -
One has to have Jhana to be able to do this long termly, if they intend to do so.

Jhana makes body smooth, no tension, sort of like a toddler's, even out of Jhana.
Lying down no longer provides significant relaxation than sitting.
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frank k
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by frank k »

theragatha. in the 16s i think. bhaddhiya
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thomaslaw
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by thomaslaw »

Thanks for the suttas information on dhutangas.

I think the lifestyle of dhutanga practices is not about sila in Theravada and Early Buddhism.
SarathW
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by SarathW »

thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:32 am Thanks for the suttas information on dhutangas.

I think the lifestyle of dhutanga practices is not about sila in Theravada and Early Buddhism.
So what is the purpose of Dhutanga?
For instance, I do not consume alcohol. I believe it is a sort of Dhutanga even though it is observing the fifth precept.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
thomaslaw
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by thomaslaw »

SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:45 am
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:32 am Thanks for the suttas information on dhutangas.

I think the lifestyle of dhutanga practices is not about sila in Theravada and Early Buddhism.
So what is the purpose of Dhutanga?
For instance, I do not consume alcohol. I believe it is a sort of Dhutanga even though it is observing the fifth precept.
I do not know for sure what is the purpose of dhutanga practices, which are in fact not found in the Maha-Vagga of SN/SA.

The main subject matter of the Maha-Vagga of SN/SA is the path of practice that leads to enlightenment, or to the cessation of dukkha 'suffering':
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by Coëmgenu »

Isn't there a famous "sitting" dhutāṅga involving never lying down, always sitting, even when sleeping? Or am I confounding this with some other practice? Maybe it's not even Theravādin.

Edit. I found it. It is Theravādin. It's No. 13 in the list linked to in the OP.

There are "four comportments" (standing, walking, sitting, lying down), but this dhutāṅga privileges only three out of these four. Why? Does anyone have some context to offer? The Buddha passed into Parinibbāna in the "lying down comportment." Why make it a spiritual exercise to never comport yourself so?

Postulants of the Hossō sect, a form of Japanese Yogācāra, practice this dhutāṅga as part of their prerequisites for abhiṣeka ("ordination").
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Mumfie
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by Mumfie »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:38 pm Why? Does anyone have some context to offer?
Its purpose is to sever the fourth of the five shackles of the heart given in the Cetokhilasutta, MN16.
"What, bhikkhus, are the five shackles in the heart that he has not severed?
...

"Again, a bhikkhu eats as much as he likes until his belly is full and indulges in the pleasures of sleeping, lolling, and drowsing, and thus his mind does not incline to ardour, devotion, perseverance, and striving. As his mind does not incline to ardour, devotion, perseverance and striving, this is the fourth shackle in the heart that he has not severed."
Path of Purification:
The benefits are these. The mental shackle described thus, “He dwells indulging in the pleasure of lying prone, the pleasure of lolling, the pleasure of torpor”, is severed; his state is suitable for devotion to any meditation subject; his deportment inspires confidence; his state favours the application of energy; he develops the right practice.

The adept that can place crosswise
His feet to rest upon his thighs
And sit with back erect shall make
Foul Māra’s evil heart to quake.

No more in supine joys to plump
And wallow in lethargic dump;
Who sits for rest and finds it good
Shines forth in the Ascetics’ Wood.

The happiness and bliss it brings
Has naught to do with worldly things;
So must the sitter’s vow befit
The manners of a man of wit.
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by Coëmgenu »

:goodpost:

Is the Visudhimagga passage you quoted specifically talking about dhutāṅga no. 13, or is it a general exhortation toward vigilance and wakefulness?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Mumfie
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by Mumfie »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:24 pm Is the Visudhimagga passage you quoted specifically talking about dhutāṅga no. 13, or is it a general exhortation toward vigilance and wakefulness?
The former. You can read the whole chapter here.

https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book ... 85018.html
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Dhuta-angas

Post by Coëmgenu »

Delightful. I'll look at it tonight.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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